Fatwa against National song of india

"And this is not because of superiority or inferiority but distance"

Correction: Root cause is not distance. Its IGNORANCE.

"I'm expecting you to support them and to bring them in the majority to create another Gujrat or Faizabad."- What you expect is not what matters. What matters is what happens.

As for violator's of supreme court, law will take its own due course. Its not just in this matter. Can you tell me the name of any minister who has served time no matter what the offense? Its not just for the Masjid case. Its a bane of our over-burdened judiciary.

But again, the topic here is not masjid or BJP. Its the national song.

Since I found you not understanding the difference between verses "Vande Mataram" and "Bharat Ma ki Jai"... I thought thers a language barrier, so just said that may be because u are from Kerala.

Believe me I never knew the difference between Tamils, Keralites or other south Indians until I was back in India, we just new Madrasi, now go and see in north India, you will find everybody calling you a Madrasi. And this is not because of superiority or inferiority but distance.

I have nothing to say abt your political approaches.

This time they pulled back Advani & Narendra Modi from the scene and pushed forward Rajnath Singh, coz they wanted to prove themselves secular, and somehow that made them lose their vote bank based on Hindutva.

This time they are going to use their same old tool (Hindutva) with Advani, Modi and togadiya.

Note this down somewhere;

1. Hindutva

2. Hindu Rashtra

3. Ram Mandir construction

4. Vande Mataram & many more issues like that.

Since you are amongst those 80%, I'm expecting you to support them and to bring them in the majority to create another Gujrat or Faizabad.

Yaa One more thing, I would like to know what happened to those, who were found guilty for violating supreme court’s order of not to harm Babri Masjid Structure and stop rath yattra?

One day prison to Atal Bihari Bajpaye… thats it????

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Stealth: brits were far less interested than any other invaders, who came to India, in pushing their faith. yes they did use the 'Divide and Rule' policy. but if the policy worked, the hindus and Muslims are as much to blame for swallowing that tactic and going at loggerheads. The responsibility for religuous paranoia cannot be entirely be that of the Brits.

But Mughals and religous tolerance?? Dont make me laugh. Except Jalaluddin , there wasnt a single one of them who could come anywhere near the word tolerance. But then again , thats another debate.

Hold your horses casanova, you said you twisted the debate to ppl's place of origin coz they called you pakistani. I didnt call you pakistani but that did not stop you in judging me by where I come from. Anyways, I'll over look that. Too much space has been spoilt on that.

If somebody mocked you based on where they thought you were from and you replied in a similar tone, what makes you think you are any different than them?

I saw BJP's last election, and if what was in their agenda was what the 80%Hindus of the country wanted, then the ruling coalition wouldnt have been headed by INC. I do not think the next election is gonna be any different.

Jalte hue ghar toh humne bhi dekhe hain, lekin dekhein hain dono taraf! hindu ka jale ya musalman ka, jal jo raha woh insaaniyat hain.

Mughals were much better in religious tolerance than the Brits. The seeds of hatred between the two religions was in fact planted by the British. SO much for their tolerance.

Arien said dot.com buddy , you can ...

dot.com buddy , you can ignore those which is not relevant always :D

Pakis pretending an indian muslim and blabbering here lol

the bee said Coasanova rofl.. u indian? ...

Coasanova rofl.. u indian? when did India started to give passports to Pakis.That would never happen!!! is it you in this video?

Winn… This is where I was addressed a Paki in the thread….

Now I Challenge you to show me if I mentioned somewhere your name in the last post or said that You called me a Paki, but ya I was addressed as non patriotic, a person who doesn’t love his country.

Buddy, there is a big difference in writing your opinion and getting betrayed by your own neighbors or friends you played with on the so called event of communal riots…

Why "so called"?

Because that should be known as political crime.

If you are really that innocent, the way you sound then that’s not my mistake but your problem, If you think you are smart enough, then let’s wait for the next elections and I bet BJP will have this issue on their agenda.

I’m happy that you understand Hindi, below are two lines for you.

Humne jalte hue ghar ghour se dekheN haiN yahaN…

Humse har waaqiya tehreer nahi ho sakta…

I’m off from this thread dude, coz any of my prove will bring you to a conclusion that its inclined towards a particular sect, which would never bring this convo to an end…

“It’s terrible to see and have no vision”

Keep Smiling Dude...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Casanova: You got it wrong. I am not offended coz you said I am from kerala. It is the truth and I am quite happy with it. I would prefer kerala to your neck of the woods any day. You have given the reasons yourselves.

My point was that, when you base your responses based on the origins of the othr person, it shows that you dont have anything of consequence to talk about.and I challenge you to show me the post where I called you a pakistani. If you cant, then your whole reasoning about why you countered my arguments with nothing but references to my birthplace, goes out of the window. Also, You have no right to judge how much hindi I understand or not.

What max posted is the opinion of one columnist not the gospel truth. A columnist who has a slight slant towards a particular ideology and who reflects it in his writing. Nonetheless I wouldnt contest the fact that he has done a bit of research, eventhough, with a particular end point in mind. In short, he wanted a spin, so he selected what is appropriate to get that spin.

Also about the context, he conveniently forgot to mention one point. That the work (whose excerpt is given above)he is talking about was written around the latter half of the 19th century when the Mughals were ousted and the British was still ruling. So the author had to give cadence to the fact. Also, by any measures, I would say the Brits were more religously tolerant than the Mughals.

No one's denying what BJP,RSS or VHP did. But if you have something against them, direct it against them, why direct it against the national song? Just coz it roots from the same ideology they claim to follow? if so, then whats the difference between you and them?

ajooba: Thanx for the pardon. not that it matters...Guess I am still the bad apple, though.

What I dont understand is why a section of the ppl hide their heads in the sand the moment such a topic comes up. (I'll overlook being called an inciter of hatred for time being). Issues that are not spoken about dont go away. get your heads out of the sand.

@ ajooba, Lolzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I may sound dubious, but you are for sure somewhere from Purwanchal...

U didnt tell me yet... Azamgarh or Gorakhpur.... hahahahahahahahaha

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Thanks Maxx, Hope it suffice…

Now I would like to drag attention of the people those are offended for being called from a particular region of the country…. Kerala

Guys I may not tell you 100 stories about why I pointed their region but wud definitely give you one solid reason.

As you all know India is a big country and we have people those are Indians but different in many ways like language, culture, food, traditions, believes etc, but one thing remain same between us and that is we are INDIANS…(Unity in Diversity)

I must congratulate Kerala for being a peaceful state, but we in north India are having Gujrat, UP Ayodhya, Akshar dham, Delhi, Kanpur and Lucknow to name a few most sensitive cities where its quite easy to put people on fire on the name of religion.

By my naked eyes I have seen those burning houses and shops, slaughtered people, homeless children and crying females and all those sins are done by one government BJP (Bhartiya Janta Party) in liaison with VHP (Vishv Hindu Parishad), RSS (Rashtriya Satya Sangh), ABVP (Akhil Bhartya Vidhyarthi Parishad), and many more extremist Hindu organizations.

Find below some video clips, and tell me, where is the harmony, peace and unity?

&feature=related (you can continue from part 1 to 15)

(please see both the parts)

&feature=related

Wish I cud get a video by news track which was banned by the BJP government, where you could see how provoking speeches were given on the spot by BJP leaders (Uma Bharti, Advani, Murli manohar Joshi to name a few) to demolish the Mosque.

Now tell me, what should I say, when people those are living 5000 miles away from us are calling me a Pakistani or a non Indian for not following the rules made by the same government.

Wake up people, U have generations coming ahead!

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

reply to u WINN i truly agree with u ..............some pple play dirty politics in da name of religion and common man suffers........

Reply to u salman...dats becoz it was written by a bengali poet if u dont know........dont hav to make fun learn to respect.......in case u did nt knw long before da capital of india was kolkata.........

Max: If you want to go back and dig at teh contexts, yes, you will come up with the Muslim rule, jizya, conversion by blade, retaliative wars and so on. It is indeed a bloody history, lots of which have been watered down in the textbooks to suit ppl's sensibilities.

There is a reason why those stanzas have been omitted. and the conclusion of the article says exactly my point.

"Mutual understanding will lead to the Gandhian formula - respect for the song but no imposition"Exactly. RESPECT and not BOYCOTT for the song and none forced to sing.

"But even more than that, if the problem were understood in depth, what would emerge is a far better appreciation of the reasons why the Muslims and the Congress drifted away from each other."- This line raises a question on the objective and stance of the article? Why congress alone?

btw, I did a google search on the author of the article. His articles, consistently, seem to have permanent inclination towards a particular sector. Anyways , should say good research with references albeit presented on partisan lines. Wonder why AnandMath is not in his list of references though.

winn, you are forgiven for reprimanding this weirdo called casanova. he is asking me personal questions on the main thread because he knows i am not going to respond to any pvt messages. you are right.. just a shallow approach it is when you just focus on someone's origin .. i think his own is most DUBIOUS here.

I know this is very old issue raised again and again; just to stir and destablise India and indian muslims.......

If certain community/people of the nation, could not sing the national song due to contradiction to their religious belief, will that make them "traitor or anti nationals"; I don't think so....

The most popular song released few years back was composed and sung by AR RAHMAN .."VANDE MATARAM !!!" and been awarded as well for his superb work.

We should understand the essense of Unity and Brotherhood among all Indians rather stirring issues like opening the DOORS of BABRI MASJID.....(congress learned from the aftermath)....

I don't know whatz the point in raising the same issue, where we know the result.

Strongly suggest, to LOOK FORWARD and stop discussing and investigating History.....

If we want to achieve PEACE; otherwise we will continue REPEATING same mistakes....

I am neither Indian nor British descendant but I admire India, its diverse culture and the peace that it inspires!

I strongly believe that this peace has a lot to do with culture, and no offense to others, Buddhism and Hinduism (strong ingredients in the diverse Indian culture) do inspire peace (again I am neither one nor the other).

All I said is that India is a beautiful and peaceful nation and it should be left the way it is. For the fanatics who can't coexist with cultural and religious diversity, they can always move across the border where that diversity is non existent.

Peace and love and do embrace diversity. A Hindu god or goddess never harmed anybody. All religious are created equally by man and they are there to provide comfort against the discomfort provoked by the natural limited human knowledge!

That’s all I meant, my dear friend Casanova. I am not offending you unless you are one of those fanatics, which I think you are not.

Are you that insecure or lack of arguments, that you can't debate without being rude?

this article gives a good insight about vande mataram

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1601/16010940.htm

How secular is Vande Mataram?

The Bharatiya Janata Party's attempt to make 'Vande Mataram', originally a song expressing Hindu nationalism, into an obligatory national song is unconstitutional.

A.G. NOORANI

UTTAR PRADESH Minister for Basic Education Ravindra Shukla declared on November 17 that "the order to make the singing of 'Vande Mataram' compulsory stands, and will be enforced". That the "order" would not cover schools run by the minority communities does not detract from its unconstitutional nature. It clearly violates Article 28 (1) and (3) of the Constitution. "(1) No religious instruction shall be provided in any educational institution wholly maintained out of state funds" and "(3) No person attending any educational institution recognised by the State or receiving aid out of State funds shall be required to take part in any religious instruction that may be imparted in such institution or to attend any religious worship that may be conducted in such institution or in any premises attached thereto unless such person or, if such person is a minor, his guardian has given his consent thereto." (emphasis added throughout). The language could not have been broader. It hits at the actual practice, regardless of a formal order and at attendance even if there is no participation in the worship.

What applies to Vande Mataram applies also to Saraswati Vandana, a hymn to the Goddess Saraswati. The Supreme Court's ruling that the singing of the National Anthem cannot be made obligatory applies both to Vande Mataram and Saraswati Vandana with yet greater force.

The U.P. Minister, who belongs to the Bharatiya Janata Party, revealed on November 17 that "the order" did exist and "will be enforced". But a few days later, on November 21, Union Home Minister L.K.Advani said that the "factual position" needed to be ascertained though he was against the singing of that song being made "mandatory". (Shukla has since been dropped from the Ministry.) More royalist than the BJP king, the Samata Party said on November 23: "Vande Mataram has no religious connotation". This is utterly false.

Else, in 1937 the Congress Working Committee would not have said: "The Committee recognise the validity of the objection raised by Muslim friends to certain parts of the song." It declared that "only the first two stanzas should be sung". A poem which needs surgical operation cannot command universal acceptance.

The song 'Vande Mataram' occurs in Bankimchandra Chatterjee's novel Anand Math published in 1882.

In his Autobiography of an Unknown Indian, Nirad C. Chaudhuri has aptly described the atmosphere of the times in which the song was written.1 "The historical romances of Bankim Chatterjee and Ramesh Chandra Dutt glorified Hindu rebellion against Muslim rule and showed the Muslims in a correspondingly poor light. Chatterjee was positively and fiercely anti-Muslim. We were eager readers of these romances and we readily absorbed their spirit."

R.C. Majumdar, the historian, has written an objective account of it.2 "During the long and arduous struggle for freedom from 1905 to 1947 'Bande Mataram' was the rallying cry of the patriotic sons of India, and thousands of them succumbed to the lathi blow of the British police or mounted the scaffold with 'Bande Mataram' on their lips. The central plot moves round a band of sanyasis, called santanas or children, who left their hearth and home and dedicated their lives to the cause of their motherland. They worshipped their motherland as the Goddess Kali;... This aspect of the Ananda Math and the imagery of Goddess Kali leave no doubt that Bankimchandra's nationalism was Hindu rather than Indian. This is made crystal clear from his other writings which contain passionate outbursts against the subjugation of India by the Muslims. From that day set the sun of our glory - that is the refrain of his essays and novels which not unoften contain adverse, and sometimes even irreverent, remarks against the Muslims" (emphasis added). As Majumdar pithily puts it, "Bankimchandra converted patriotism into religion and religion into patriotism."

The novel was not anti-British, either. In the last chapter, we find a supernatural figure persuading the leader of the sanyasis, Satyananda, to stop fighting. The dialogue that follows is interesting:3

"He: Your task is accomplished. The Muslim power is destroyed. There is nothing else for you to do. No good can come of needless slaughter.

"S: The Muslim power has indeed been destroyed, but the dominion of the Hindu has not yet been established. The British still hold Calcutta.

"He: Hindu dominion will not be established now. If you remain at your work, men will be killed to no purpose. Therefore come.

"S: (greatly pained) My lord, if Hindu dominion is not going to be established, who will rule? Will the Muslim kings return?

"He: No. The English will rule."

Satyananda protests, but is persuaded to lay down the sword.

"He: Your vow is fulfilled. You have brought fortune to your Mother. You have set up a British government. Give up your fighting. Let the people take to their ploughs. Let the earth be rich with harvest and the people rich with wealth.

"S: (weeping hot tears) I will make my Mother rich with harvest in the blood of her foes.

"He: Who is the foe? There are no foes now. The English are friends as well as rulers. And no one can defeat them in battle. (emphasis added).

"S: If that is so, I will kill myself before the image of my Mother.

"He: In ignorance? Come and know. There is a temple of the Mother in the Himalayas. I will show you her image there.

"So saying, He took Satyananda by the hand."

Anti-Muslim references are spread all over the work. Jivananda with sword in hand, at the gate of the temple, exhorts the children of Kali: "We have often thought to break up this bird's nest of Muslim rule, to pull down the city of the renegades and throw it into the river - to turn this pig-sty to ashes and make Mother earth free from evil again. Friends, that day has come."

The use of the song 'Vande Mataram' in the novel is not adventitious, and it is not only communal-minded Muslims who resent it because of its context and content. M.R.A. Baig's analysis of the novel and the song deserve attention. "Written as a story set in the period of the dissolution of the Moghul Empire, the hero of the novel, Bhavananda, is planning an armed rising against the Muslims of Bengal. While busy recruiting, he meets Mahendra and sings the song 'Bande Mataram' or 'Hail Mother'. The latter asks him the meaning of the words and Bhavananda, making a spirited answer, concludes with: 'Our religion is gone, our caste is gone, our honour is gone. Can the Hindus preserve their Hinduism unless these drunken Nereys (a term of contempt for Muslims) are driven away?'... Mahendra, however, not convinced, expresses reluctance to join the rebellion. He is, therefore, taken to the temple of Ananda Math and shown a huge image of four-armed Vishnu, with two decapitated and bloody heads in front, "Do you know who she is?" asks the priest in charge, pointing to an image on the lap of Vishnu, "She is the Mother. We are her children Say 'Bande Mataram'" He is taken to the image of Kali and then to that of Durga. On each occasion he is asked to recite 'Bande Mataram'. In another scene in the novel some people shouted 'kill, kill the Nereys'. Others shouted 'Bande Mataram' 'Will the day come when we shall break mosques and build temples on their sites? 4

The song has five stanzas. Of these only the first two are the "approved ones". Jawaharlal Nehru was 'opposed to the last two stanzas'. The approved stanzas read:

"I bow to thee, Mother, richly watered, richly fruited,

cool with the winds of the south,

dark with the crops of the harvests,

the Mother!

Her nights rejoicing in the glory of

the moonlight, her hands clothed

beautifully with her trees in flowering

bloom, sweet of laughter, sweet of

speech, the Mother, giver of boons

giver of bliss!

The third stanza refers to 'Thy dreadful name', evidently, a reference to the Goddess Kali. The fourth is in the same vein. 'Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen, with her hands that strike and her swords of sheen'.

It is essentially a religious homage to the country conceived as a deity, 'a form of worship' as Majumdar aptly called it. The motherland is "conceived as the Goddess Kali, the source of all power and glory."

This, in the song itself. The context makes it worse. "The land of Bengal, and by extension all of India, became identified with the female aspect of Hindu deity, and the result was a concept of divine Motherland".5 How secular is such a song? The objection was not confined to mere bowing and it was voiced early in the day.

In his presidential address at the Second Session of the All-India Muslim League held in Amritsar on December 30, 1908, Syed Ali Imam said:

"I cannot say what you think, but when I find the most advanced province of India put forward the sectarian cry of 'Bande Mataram' as the national cry, and the sectarian Rakhibandhan as a national observance, my heart is filled with despair and disappointment; and the suspicion that under the cloak of nationalism Hindu nationalism is preached in India becomes a conviction. Has the experiment tried by Akbar and Aurangzeb failed again? Has 50 years of the peaceful spread of English education given the country only a revival of denominationalism? Gentlemen, do not misunderstand me. I believe that the establishment of conferences, associations and corporate bodies in different communities on denominational lines is necessary to give expression to denominational views, so that the builders of a truly national life in the country may have before them the crystallised need and aspirations of all sects...

"Regard for the feelings and sentiments, needs and requirements of all is the key-note to true Indian nationalism. It is more imperative where the susceptibilities of the two great communities, Hindus and Musalmans, are involved. Unreconciled, one will be as great a drag on the wheel of national progress as the other. I ask the architects of Indian nationalism, both in Calcutta and Poona, do they expect the Musalmans of India to accept 'Bande Mataram' and the Sivaji celebration? The Mohammedans may be weak in anything you please, but they are not weak in cherishing their traditions of their glorious past. I pray the Congress leaders to put before the country such a programme of political advancement as does not demand the sacrifice of the feelings of the Hindu or the Mohammedan, the Parsee or the Christian."

The Congress Working Committee, which met in Calcutta on October 26, 1937, under the presidentship of Nehru, adopted a long statement on the subject.6 It asked that the song should "be considered apart from the book." Recalling its use in the preceding 30 years, the resolution said:

"The song and the words thus became symbols of national resistance to British Imperialism in Bengal especially, and generally in other parts of India. The words 'Bande Mataram' became a slogan of power which inspired our people and a greeting which ever remind us of our struggle for national freedom.

"Gradually the use of the first two stanzas of the song spread to other provinces and a certain national significance began to attach to them. The rest of the song was very seldom used, and is even now known by few persons. These two stanzas described in tender language the beauty of (the) motherland and the abundance of her gifts. There was absolutely nothing in them to which objection could be from the religious or any other point of view... The other stanzas of the song are little known and hardly ever sung. They contain certain allusions and a religious ideology which may not be in keeping with the ideology of other religious groups in India.

"The Committee recognise the validity of the objection raised by Muslim friends to certain parts of the song. While the Committee have taken note of such objection insofar as it has intrinsic value, the Committee wish to point out that the modern evolution of the use of the song as part of National life is of infinitely greater importance than its setting in a historical novel before the national movement had taken shape. Taking all things into consideration, therefore, the Committee recommend that, wherever Bande Mataram is sung at national gatherings, only the first two stanzas should be sung, with perfect freedom to the organisers to sing any other song of an unobjectionable character, in addition to, or in the place of, the Bande Mataram song."

'National' songs do not need political surgery; the songs which do, do not win national acceptance. Against this was the fact of history that, however ill-advised, the song had come to be associated with the struggle for freedom. Gandhi advised Muslims to appreciate its historic association but counselled against any imposition. "No doubt, every act... must be purely voluntary on the part of either partner," he said at Alipore on August 23, 1947.

THE Government of India acquired this emotion-charged legacy. Its stand was defined in a statement by Prime Minister Nehru to the Constituent Assembly (Legislative) on August 25, 1948:7 Nehru said:

"The question of having a national anthem tune, to be played by orchestras and bands became an urgent one for us immediately after 15th August 1947. It was as important as that of having a national flag. The 'Jana Gana Mana' tune, slightly varied, had been adopted as a national anthem by the Indian National Army in South-East Asia, and had subsequently attained a degree of popularity in India also... I wrote to all the provincial Governors and asked their views about our adopting 'Jana Gana Mana' or any other song as the national anthem. I asked them to consult their Premiers before replying... Every one of these Governors, except one (the Governor of the Central Provinces), signified their approval of 'Jana Gana Mana'. Thereupon the Cabinet considered the matter and came to the decision that provisionally 'Jana Gana Mana' should be used as the tune for the national anthem, till such time as the Constituent Assembly came to a final decision. Instructions were issued accordingly to the provincial governments...

''It is unfortunate that some kind of argument has arisen as between 'Vande Mataram' and 'Jana Gana Mana'. 'Vande Mataram' is obviously and indisputably the premier national song of India, with a great historical tradition, and intimately connected with our struggle for freedom. That position it is bound to retain and no other song can displace it. It represents the position and poignancy of that struggle, but perhaps not so much the culmination of it. In regard to the national anthem tune, it was felt that the tune was more important than the words... It seemed therefore that while 'Vande Mataram' should continue to be the national song par excellence in India, the national anthem tune should be that of 'Jana Gana Mana', the wording of 'Jana Gana Mana' to be suitably altered to fit in with the existing circumstances.

"The question has to be considered by the Constituent Assembly, and it is open to that Assembly to decide as it chooses. It may decide on a completely new song or tune, if such is available."

A MORE definitive statement was made by the President of the Constituent Assembly, Rajendra Prasad, on January 24, 1950. He said: "There is one matter which has been pending for discussion, namely, the question of the national anthem. At one time it was thought that the matter might be brought up before the House, and a decision taken by the House by way of a resolution. But it has been felt that, instead of taking a formal decision by means of a resolution, it is better if I make a statement with regard to the national anthem. Accordingly, I make this statement... The composition consisting of the words and music known as 'Jana Gana Mana' is the national anthem of India, subject to such alterations in the words as the Government may authorise as occasion arises; and the song 'Vande Mataram', which has played a historic part in the struggle for Indian freedom, shall be honoured equally with Jana Gana Mana and shall have equal status with it. (Applause) I hope that will satisfy the Members."8

Mutual understanding will lead to the Gandhian formula - respect for the song but no imposition. But even more than that, if the problem were understood in depth, what would emerge is a far better appreciation of the reasons why the Muslims and the Congress drifted away from each other. Those reasons have many a lesson for us today as we build a secular India. Attempts at imposition reflect a conscious decision to break with the national secular ideal.

REFERENCES

1. Jaico; page 235.

2. British Paramountcy and Indian Renaissance, Part II: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, 1965; page 478.

3. Sources of Indian Tradition compiled by William Theodore de Bary and others; Columbia University Press; 1958; page 715.

4. Vide his essay "The Partition of Bengal and its Aftermath; The Indian Journal of Political Science; Volume XXX, April-June 1969, Number 2, pages 120-122.

5. D.F.Smith: India as a Secular State; Princeton University Press; 1963; page 90

6. Indian Annual Register, 1937, Volume II, p. 327.

7. Official Report on "Constituent Assembly Debates"; Third session, Part I, Volume VI, August 9-31, 1948.

8. Constituent Assembly Debates, Volume XII; January 24, 1950.

My initial comment was referring to the fatwa guys and it was just a reactive comment.

Sorry if it offended anybody here, it sure was not my intention.

Casanova: You were kind of starting to earn a grudging respect from me in your search for alternatives, till you started looking at people's origins more than their POV's.

Dude, it does not help you prove anything by saying someone is from some part of the world or the nation. On the contrary it just shows how shallow your thought process is. Why dont you focus on the topic of debate instead of trying to judge people based on where they are from?

Similiar to what you said, I have more muslim friends than any other faith in India. (and yes, I found Nic's comment offensive, but I would still maintain that its a public forum and he has as much right to state his POV as you or me) Have fasted with them and broken fasts with them. and have maintained a respectful stance whenevr they were praying/ folowing their religion in any way. Does that mean I am betraying MY beliefs about the presence/absence of God? I dont think so. They did not force me to pray with them or follow their faith. Neither did their prayers OFFEND me. and thats why I cannot understand, from where I stand, why a REMOVED verse (about a goddess) from the national song should OFFEND you. Nobody is asking you to sing it.(Even the Vajpayee Govt in 1998 said it wasnt mandatory and nobody should be forced.)

All you are being asked is to respect it as its the national song, (cauterized to an extent where the religous overtones have been removed to the max possible).

Still, if you cant respect it, fine. Follow the democratic process and strive to change what you cannot accept. Ofcourse it will take effort. That is what you call RESPONSiBLE. Not BOYCOTTING and inciting to BOYCOTT.

No marks for guessing why some think tanks still talk about lack of assimiliation of the community to the mainstream.

Adey: Quite interesting that. Thanx for sharing.

casanova....I agree with ur point on fatwa n faith buh in btw u mention abt keralite n language....ie d diff btw u n me...u don know how to utilize time buh we do...nyway gud luk...

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge.

socrates

Now you are chatting with what you call an asshole!

never felt a shame to make it correct!

No one knows how it is that one glance a boy can break through into a girl's heart

N Bonaparte

First you wrote pee, then you changed it to shit. This proves you are not sure of what you want to say. Maybe you are having trouble sleeping. Go and see the doc. Or take some sleeping pills and go to sleep.I think you need to rest your brain to think straight!

the debate b/w two Qlers were on right track, suddenly an

A S S H O L E (edifis)jumped in, and trying to shit.

Thanks for reminding ;)

No one knows how it is that one glance a boy can break through into a girl's heart

N Bonaparte

Assholes don't pee, they shit. Go and visit a Doc Dot.Com, you need medical assistance. Judging by your comments, I think your tracts are all jumbled up!

All of it. Like our flag and money having Buddhist symbol. So there should be fatwa against theses too.....and so on and so forth...

edif - He said lot of things....

Which one you second ??

SO tht I ll check whether I can third him and Second you.. :p

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

I support Winn on this. I second him on whatever he said.

Now vande Mataram has become a BJP Property ????

I know you are from Delhi....

Few shall be in Parliament... many IPS officers.. IAS officers...

was there for more than a yr.. almost everyone had some or the other good hold at important govt. position.....

this is something I could never understand...

Never seen a common man in Delhi :).. All had good hold..

Bro - For saving the next generation.....

Before banning FATWAs RSS BJP CPM and Congress....

Hollywood and Bollywood are bigger culprits.....

Don think at our times a 5 yr old ever played with flower "She loves me.. she loves me not" .....

Internet too is another issue....

these are issues to be taken care of.....

Kids learning " Jara Jara Touch me touch me Touch me" Before Vande Mataram or Jana Gana Manna,,,

tht worries me more.. :(

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

ood Manners and Form (Al-Adab)

Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 71

Narrated Abu Dhar:

That he heard the Prophet saying, "If somebody accuses another of Fusuq (by calling him 'Fasiq' i.e. a wicked person) or accuses him of Kufr, such an accusation will revert to him (i.e. the accuser) if his companion (the accused) is innocent."

Even though its our National Song, but it was not implemented forcefully on children to sing before 1996, BJP made it an issue to get back in majority again with Hindutva...

You may not know how many members of parliament are there in my own family, one of them is from your very own city Mumbai, I might have not been a very good scholar of my college and university but i have seen and done enough politics to understand such issues.

and yaa, dont talk abt those who are already spoiled, but at least we can save our next generations...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Casanova - Scared ????

for whtever reason tht is ...

Let us not talk about culture followed globally....

Many Indian Muslims drink Alcohol.... tht is not something accepted globally . .

Many have gal frens before marriage... even non-muslim ones.... nothing religious in this case too.....

Why then.. as someone said before make a issue for song whom many don even know by heart.. even though its our national song..... ??

Leave it..

Came back on Saturday dude....

these 2 weeks was fun. met school/college/ex-office frens.... it was refreshing...

All set to spend another 6 months in these dunes :p

Howz life treating you ??

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Oh Aswin...

I'm scared,

Now let me tell you one thing very honestly dude, I'm an Indian but come what may, I cant kneel down infront of anyone but God...

any constitution of the world can make mistakes and can amend those mistakes afterwards...

the Indian Gov. has to think over that once again about the sentiments of a religion, we are not asking anything especially customized for India but we follow the same culture globally...

Well leave it, tell me are you back or still in Mumbai?

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

for hijacking this thread

Hmm..

All my life.. I never could see VANDE MATARAM in a religious way...

Never heard it in any temple... neither used in any festival....

Muslims find it HINDU.. why the Hell we Hindus are Blind not to look at it in religious way ???

I second FriedUnicorn and FormattedSoul here - It is definately matter of national concern..

This is not even misuse .. but abuse of Democracy .....

Who except for the politicians in country bother about religion these dayz ?????

MONEY is all matters.. those who focus on the real issues are the ones who are making this country proud....

TATAs, AZIZ PREMJI, and fools like you n me fight on wht Allah said and wht Gita said...

How does Allah or any God say exactly wht the reader comprehends from the text ???

Never seen every individual who opens Quantum Physics understanding it in first read.. even though a logical proof is mentioned....

And personally I am more Indian than a Hindu....

If anyone talks crap about the country... or any part of the country he doesn belong to..... He should know it is wrong....

May be religion say discriminations on any grounds is wrong.... but following it the way mentioned is equally important...

Not Jus blabbering the text....

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Eco... Itni be-aetbaari achhi nahi hoti...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

can u plz wait???

the rest can go on for Vande Mataram :D

No one knows how it is that one glance a boy can break through into a girl's heart

N Bonaparte

folks atleast once a week listen to Noor e islam at QBS

urdu service

ajooba...

Well i can see who cares, if you are somewhere from proper lucknow then tell me where do u stay in lucknow and which school did u study in Lucknow?

Mujhe tum me kuchh Bihari touch bhi lag raha hai... KahiN Dhanbaad ya patna se to nahi ho... waise poorwanchal me Gorakhpur ya Aazam Garh se bhi ho sakti ho...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

get over it you self-righteous casanova. who cares about your opinion? surely not I.

Shreeya...

I respect so many Hindu leaders and Gurus for their optimistic approaches towards peace, I have more hindu friends than muslims in India but they are totally different from the bashers of the QL...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Casanova I have met you dude,you know me too.rofl.. sheep in the wolf skin. shameless.

Idians,, whethr like it or not. will have to live with whats existing, dont even dream of changing things because few of u doesnt want it lol

The refered Hadith is true, and i heard many times, i'm trying to get the source and put it here for your kind info.

No one knows how it is that one glance a boy can break through into a girl's heart

N Bonaparte

ajooba... I respect lucknowites coz i think they have some tehzeeb remaining in their blood, dont make me change my POV towards you... u seem to be from somewhere near lucknow, may be barabanki, Hardoi, Sitapur, Lakhimpur or Kanpur...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

http://www.thewahhabimyth.com/mawdudi.htm

"(Uttar Pradesh), Nov 3 (IANS) Renowned yoga guru Swami Ramdev Tuesday sought to promote his method of keeping fit and dispel misconceptions about it at the gathering of clerics and followers at the historic Islamic seminary here . Emphasising the need for promoting communal harmony, he contended that the unity between Hindus and Muslims was the strength of the nation. ‘It was high time people realized that ‘Ishwar’ and ‘Allah’ were two names of one and the only god,’ he said. "

This news is also from Deoband gathering and it fascinates me more than anything else....

Stressing the need to promote yoga, Ramdev

Everything's gonna be alright!!!

The Bee, how much do u know about me or my nationality...???

where from India are u?

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

lolz bee :)

---If you can't CONVINCE 'em, CONFUSE 'em!!!

guys what the heck is going on? why cant we all live in peace? dotcome what the heck are you trying to prove man.. nobody listens to me boohoo

arien, give it a rest man you are not helping by retaliating to all stupid comments. to all stupid ppl who think that the train coming from the other side with fake notes is the truth, get a life. were u there to see that? even if u were there, what makes u think its not a conspiracy.. politis is dirty and to all wanna be politicians here: go sh*t somewhere else. :)

Eco... U might have not read the full link, read and you will get everything there...

As i said earlier, I dont know abt Maulana Abu Ala, coz never heard of him.

for the Ref. of Hadith, I may not be accurate with word by word translation but the meanings would be same.

sure wud send you ASAP Insha Allah, coz i didnt read it myself but the source i trust.

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Coasanova rofl.. u indian? when did India started to give passports to Pakis.That would never happen!!! is it you in this video?

Ok

Hadith: Prophet Mohammed (saw) says, avoid calling Kafir a Kafir, coz u never know what time he may turn to a Momin

And for your info Maulana Abu Ala is not barelvi

Strange, now a Mallo will call me a pakistani?

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

You cannot prove it casanova,because you are not one. one who is not proud of his nationality is the moron and lessfortunate low life. None of the Indian muslim will say he/she is not Indian.

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

dot.com buddy , you can ignore those which is not relevant always :D

Pakis pretending an indian muslim and blabbering here lol

______________________________________________

- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Arian,

I’m sure I don’t need to prove my nationality and patriotism in front of you or any other moronic, less informed and less fortunate Indian…

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Finally we got a Gate keeper for a Public forum.

If its a internal issue, why the hell brought up on Main Forum???

No one knows how it is that one glance a boy can break through into a girl's heart

N Bonaparte

Hmnn... So hes a barelvi, i didnt know that... it was just the first result i googled...

Somehow, if you believe in Bukhari and Ansari, my purpose is solved...

Islam is not in favor of bowing and thats something i was fighting for in the same thread.

nevertheless, we hold no rights to call a Muslim a Kafir.

Will get back to you with an email by Dr. Zakir Naik, hope that would help you more to understand my POV.

Allah Hafiz

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Ecco savvy - grow up. you have no right to comment on the Indian muslims. check yourself how good a muslim you are first. It shows you have not reached anywhere.

Afterall this is an issue between the Indian onstitution and the Indian Muslims. Other nationalities dont have much business with it. Casanova , u sure u are an indian?

______________________________________________

- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Maulana Sayyid Abul Ala Maudoodi now dont let me start with Abu Ala

Eco... This is for your information; hope it has answers for all ur questions...

http://www.muslim.org/light/96-6.htm

Dot.com, if you go through that post again, you will find I have clearly mentioned that her balancing act is not going to nullify her actions.

I just meant to correct her at first place also, I didn’t bash her when she called half of the Indian Muslims are Hindus.

I know it very well how to answer your post script, but since its your ignorance, would recommend you also to go through the link I have posted, and just FYI the link posted is written by Pakistani Ulma.

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

wellsaid

once when Eco bashed indians, u called her Pakistani, and when she repeated for Pakistani's , u called her sister.

Really love ur comments.

PS:ECO-- Get a life, and don't do the job for Mufti's .

No one knows how it is that one glance a boy can break through into a girl's heart

N Bonaparte

“All India Sunni Ulema Board on Sept 6, 2006, issued a fatwa that the Muslims can sing the first two verses of the song. The Board president Moulana Mufti Syed Shah Badruddin Qadri Aljeelani said that "If you bow at the feet of your mother with respect, it is not shirk but only respect.

Have you bothered to find out who is he?

Bowing is Kuffar culture its done in Hyderabad, even touching feet out of respect. We are strictly not allowed to bow except Almighty

Thanks to ta tah tahiya Moghuls, thats how ignorance spread

Somehow I knew this was coming to me, I don’t know from where are you doing ur Aalimah course, but I’m raised in a family where you will find number of Aalimahs including my sister.

If ref. is really required for Hadith, I would surely send you, along with the surah and verse no. of Quran where the the Matter of Shirk is mentioned.

Keep smiling

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

which is Fard al ain

and when you quote hadith give reference

@Eco-Savvy

Sister... First of all u cannot nullify such actions by repeating same words for your own community or people.

Since Allah SWT hold all the rights to decide upon whos true momin and whos not, we are not allowed to interfere in his decisions, once we are deciding on his behalf means we are putting ourselves at his place… which means “Allah ki zaat me shareek hona” and that’s Shirk.

Hadith: Prophet Mohammed (saw) says, avoid calling Kafir a Kafir, coz u never know what time he may turn to a Momin.

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

you want a course or a cause?

there is any course to learn that how we grow up ?

Now explain to me what is shirq

Eco-savvy... I didnt know you are a Pakistani until you wrote this, coz this phrase is quite pravelent in Pakis...

would like to bring it to your considration that the words u have spoken is also a shirk...

Allah has not given this right to anyone to point towards faith of a Muslim, he held this right to himself...

May Allah guide and enlighten us. Ameen

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

yea. I will. Thanks for your comment. You still havent learnt much of Islam. You sure will have a lot to answer for your sweeping comments on the Day of judgement anyway.

all the time

Mind your words Eco-savvy,before you speak. Who are you to say that. Who has given you the authority to make such a claim?

Dont think that reading a few books make you a great scholar.

quote

If you bow at the feet of your mother with respect, it is not shirk but only respect."

unquote

I keep repeating majority of Indian muslims are half hindus

"today it's the song...what tomorrow? ..."

Well here is your answer, from the same group as issued the song 'fatwa':

India Today wrote:

Veiled burqa threat from Jamiat faction

Sowmya Aji

Deoband (Uttar Pradesh), November 3, 2009

Urging Muslim women to wear the burqa, the Maulana Mahmood Madani faction of the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind has said women who favour clothes other than the conservative attire bring disrepute to the community.

“Our girls are going out in other kinds of clothes now. All you men here should ensure that our sisters, mothers and wives wear the burqa. We lose honour and modesty because of them and, if this continues, we will never recover from the disrepute,” a mullah said at the Jamiat’s general body meeting on Monday held in this conservative seminary town of Deoband. The Jamiat is endorsed by a body of 5,000-odd men.

In line with the Deobandi thinking, which the Taliban claim influenced them, the Jamiat came down heavily on women in several resolutions.

Individual mullahs from all parts of the country, speaking on the various resolutions, made it clear what they feel a woman’s status in society should be - “secondary and subdued”. The Jamiat also disapproved of 33 per cent reservation for women as “unnecessary and unacceptable” but wanted separate reservation for Muslims.

Another resolution suggested the setting up of “social reform committees” in all villages, whose job among other things includes stopping the youth from watching cinema, TV and “other moral killing things”.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/69021/India/Veiled+burqa+threat+from+Jamiat+faction.html

So they are basically a bunch of guys telling people what to do. I guess one should take all their 'fatwas' with a pinch of salt and pick and choose or......follow all of them to the letter.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Plz again go through this portion...

Controversy

Jana Gana Mana was chosen as the National Anthem of independent India. Vande Mataram was rejected on the grounds that Muslims, Christians, Parsis, Sikhs, Arya Samajis and others who opposed idol worship felt offended by its depiction of the nation as "Mother Durga"—a Hindu goddess. Muslims also felt that its origin as part of Anandamatha, a novel they felt had an anti-Muslim message.

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

I was talking abt this article.

http://www.fakingnews.com/2009/10/unable-to-attract-even-a-single-girl-frustrated-man-sues-axe/

Anyways, it just goes to show that you can file any ridiculous thing in courts, especially in delhi, where you seem to hail from. Yet to hear anything like this from other states you so look down upon. I donno what it has to do with where I am from. (Looks like you did a bit of research on me). If you consider urself superior to anyone coz you are from some part of the country and he is from somewhere else, then all I can do is laugh at your face.

Btw, thanx for giving me that wiki link, I found this there:

“All India Sunni Ulema Board on Sept 6, 2006, issued a fatwa that the Muslims can sing the first two verses of the song. The Board president Moulana Mufti Syed Shah Badruddin Qadri Aljeelani said that "If you bow at the feet of your mother with respect, it is not shirk but only respect."

I have read the link carefully but ther’s no reference to any attempt made to change the national song or make amendments. Only issues were about to use it or not.

About your judgment that I cannot understand Hindi, you can clarify with any of the hindi speaking people on QL who have met me personally. I do not need to prove it to something like you.

“not to bow the GODDESS DURGA or KAALI or any of thousands”

Vande Mataram also does not mean Bow to Kali or any other goddess. It means “Bow to Mother” It seems your own hindi needs some revision.

The stanza you are referring to just compares the power of the nation to that of the mythical goddess and does not give the meaning bow down to goddess. Anyways that stanza is not sung when you sing the national song. Listen to it more carefully next time.

Nobody is denying that takbeer existed for 1400 years long. The point is it wasn’t as commonly used during the freedom struggle as Vande Mataram. Hope you can get your head around that.

(Better don’t provoke me to come up with their falsified deeds).

Oh please, I am soooo scared!!

LOL…please do come up with their ‘falsified’ deeds, whatever that means. I have no issues with that. I myself has spoken against em before.

Casanova: Differentiating between the debate and the person needs maturity. Hope you can grasp that.

Abt Nic or whoever else commenting on the problem:

This is a public forum and he has as much right to comment on this forum as you do. You dont own the forum, casanova!

Funny to see people debating on AXE deo on a thread about the fatwa and vandematharam. lol

You are not an Indian too as per your profile Casanova!!

Casanova- I may not be of your debating standards, I am repeating my question. Vandematharam is the national song of democratic India. FEW, I repeat FEW from one community which consist 13.7% of the total population doesnt want to sing it, its fine. But it remains as the national song. DO you they think they have a choice?

______________________________________________

- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

blackfools said PATRIOTISM ...

ONE SHOULD BE FAITHFUL & HAVE GOOD REGARDS FOR A COUNTRY WHERE HE STAYS.

WHEN A COUNTRY ACCEPTS HIM THEN WHY CANT HE RESPECT COUNTRY.

ALWAYS FIGHTING FOR MINORITY IS BASELESS,

RESPECT COUNTRY,HUMANITY AND SECONDARY COMES THE RELIGION.

PEOPLE ARE BRAIN WASHED IN THE NAME OF RELIGION AND FORGET ALL HUMANITY TO OTHERS AS WELL AS SAME COMMUNITY ALSO.

RESPECT COUNTRY,ALL HUMAN BEINGS & PEACE WILL FOLLOW TO ALL RELIGIONS

JAI HIND....

I know, you do not meet my standard of arguments, but looking at your bold letter post i couldnt resist myself for answering you...

so what i understand from your msg is that from Now you will be following all that.... when it comes to QATAR, coz u are living here and they have accepted you.... if its right then i at least dont want you to complain abt the system and culture followed in the country in any of your future posts....

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Nic...

Oh just went through ur profile, u are not an Indian..

So better stay away from our personal issues...

we can fight and resolve, its our very own problem...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

NIC... I think u mean to say that India belongs to u and your grandpa...

thats our country and yaa, if you think u have a problem living with us, u can go and Fcuk around anywhere...

Dare you say this again...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

I suggest that for those who are not happy in India for thinking that it doesn't respect Islam, they can always move to Pakistan where everything is in accordance with Islam.

Wow… so many conclusions, just because I was out for lunch … gr8…

So, from where shall I start first???

Lets talk abt Winn’s post…

“In a country where you can sue a company for not getting a girlfriend after using a deodorant”-

I guess you are referring to a satire posted in a site called ‘fakingnews’ . It wasn’t a real incident.

Just coz I think that I don’t get justice in court doesn’t mean I can go on the street and do what I feel I want.

Well, is this something you are calling fake?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/925734/man-sues-lynx-after-failing-to-get-girl

Buddy I’m not somewhere from Kerala or any other southern state.

I’m a Delhite, and somehow I know the lawyer personally, ur above statement shows how definite you sound when you speak without knowledge, that’s the reason why I excused you earlier and again you are excused.

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you have a right to protest, I agree. But protest is one thing, boycotting and encouraging to boycott national symbols endorsed by the constitution is another thing. That’s exactly what is being done here. What you should do is impress on your elected representatives to raise the issue on the floor of parliament and then reach an amendment. You are a pretty decent size vote bank, so get it done. Courts can’t do that for you. Of course, it takes effort.

For your rest of the information I’m pasting one more link, which can give you an Idea what has happened to this issue in the court and parliament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_Mataram

Yaa… That RSS, VHP, BJP, I don’t wanna waste my time on talking abt them, because what they are doing to unite and promote India is visible enough with Naked eyes. (Better don’t provoke me to come up with their falsified deeds)

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.

Now since you don’t understand Hindi (your National Language) I cant do anything abt that, coz “Bharat Mata ki jai” means Hail India the Mother, not to bow the GODDESS DURGA or KAALI or any of thousands, but yaa I understand you can make a mistake here coz u are a Keralite and your mother tongue is Malayalam. (so again u are excused)

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The word Takbeer:

I don’t need to go back to any video or website coz I know Islam very well and this word exist in Islamic dictionary for more than past 1400 years and was used by all the Muslims fought for freedom of India.

Hope this suffice,,, and if you really want to discuss more abt that, please go through all the links and get the maximum information, I’m sure it will depart you from your pseudo-intellectual approaches.

Jai Hind (Hail India not Bow to India)

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

the ppl who have objection, they are not migrated!

Just want to know ...what were the muslims in India ( and I mean who belong to the common people like me) doing about the song before it was brought to their notice through fatwa's, that it is against their religion....or they never sung this song ever...

________________________________________

One life to live, live it to the fullest.

ONE SHOULD BE FAITHFUL & HAVE GOOD REGARDS FOR A COUNTRY WHERE HE STAYS.

WHEN A COUNTRY ACCEPTS HIM THEN WHY CANT HE RESPECT COUNTRY.

ALWAYS FIGHTING FOR MINORITY IS BASELESS,

RESPECT COUNTRY,HUMANITY AND SECONDARY COMES THE RELIGION.

PEOPLE ARE BRAIN WASHED IN THE NAME OF RELIGION AND FORGET ALL HUMANITY TO OTHERS AS WELL AS SAME COMMUNITY ALSO.

RESPECT COUNTRY,ALL HUMAN BEINGS & PEACE WILL FOLLOW TO ALL RELIGIONS

JAI HIND

[img_assist|nid=7955|title=neo-avetar-only-for-neo-please|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=126|height=180]

Religious blackmail of gullible population under the threat of social boycott cannot be acceptable

Our politicians have a knack to make non issues into issues

As they neither have the intelligence not the guts to see behind next election

we are no more than cattle for them to be sacrificed when required

I wonder how such controversial matters may be raised with the tacit concurrence of our cabinet ministers

When religion is mixed with social & political life there can be chaos

Tomorrow they may refuse to sing sare jahan se accha…..

Its crazy to manipulate things in the name of religion…

Its a pity that even the most sensible member here turns oblivious when it comes to their religion… *sighhhh*

Metrocity: I do have friends in RSS who call me a closet muslim/liberalist/western admirer/communist/hindu apologist depending on topic of argument. And then thers your types that call me an RSS member. But what matters is that

"I DONT GIVE A RAT'S ARSE WHAT YOU THINK I AM"

Now that we have gotten that clear, lets come to this point. I havent yet seen them forcing anyone to sing 'Vande mataram'. They are blind about things in a way, their logic doesnt really appeal to me but that doesnt mean i would accuse them of things they did not do.Not that they have not done things that require to be condemned.

does anybody give any credit to those clowns?

thalib/casanova

thalib lol yes yes a cooler young boy :P

casanova fine buddy i allready passed to message . i hope i will get soon :)

Casanova - you challenge or bet or do whatver. National song is national song. sing ot or not is up to you. BUt accept it as the national song and you dont have a choice bro.

______________________________________________

- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Pajjjuuuu ... hows u dude???

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Casanova, peace buddy...

I'm not here for a fight, anyways. Since you know the language and some part of the history , I'm ready to accept you as superior to me. SO you don't need my stories anymore!. Anyways thanks for your offer.

Cool it off..

---If you can't CONVINCE 'em, CONFUSE 'em!!!

Casanova: First of all do let me thank you for your magnanimity in pardoning my ignorance. Don’t know what I would have done without it. Now coming to your post.

“In a country where you can sue a company for not getting a girlfriend after using a deodorant”-

I guess you are referring to a satire posted in a site called ‘fakingnews’ . It wasn’t a real incident.

Just coz I think that I don’t get justice in court doesn’t mean I can go on the street and do what I feel I want.

“As per the rights of democracy, one is allowed to protest if not being heard (and that’s what exactly being done)”:

you have a right to protest, I agree. But protest is one thing, boycotting and encouraging to boycott national symbols endorsed by the constitution is another thing. That’s exactly what is being done here. What you should do is impress on your elected representatives to raise the issue on the floor of parliament and then reach an amendment. You are a pretty decent size vote bank, so get it done. Courts cant do that for you. Of course, it takes effort.

“YES… Islam is above everything to us”- That’s quite evident. Thank you. You have as much freedom to believe in that as has someone else to believe that the nation is above everything, including religion.

“Why don’t we use “Inqilaab Zindabad”, “Nara-e-Takbeer Allah-o-Akbar”, “Tum hume khoon do hum tumhe Azadi deN ge”, “Jai Javan Jai Kissan”, “Bharat Mata ki Jai” etc etc…”

Tipu and the Mughals were fighting for their own territories, not for the whole nation. And they were as much of tyrants as the colonial powers. It cannot in any way be compared to a mass movement of common people who came together in their own volition without being commanded by a king/an autocrat. And none of those slogans were ever as popular, as widespread from kashmir to kanyakumari, arunachal to ahmedabad, as this one. The ones you said happened in isolated pockets. (Jai Javan Jai Kisan is post independence, not that it matters, but just clarifying). By the way, if you are ok with ‘Bharat Mata ki Jai’ then what is the problem with Vande Mataram? by the Takbeer was heard more during the post independence riots. Chk out those old archives/videos

‘Inqilab Zindabad’ means ‘long live revolution’. ‘Gimme blood, I’ll give you freedom” is again not a song and What is its connection with a motto, the national song of a ‘sovereign’ republic? That said, I do appreciate your search for alternatives. Good luck on that.

Indian Flag and the religious symbol- You spoke about the colors , but you did not touch the thing about the religious symbol, the Buddhist wheel of dharma which was exactly my point. As for currency you again missed the symbol from the Buddhist stupa.

“I don’t mind what they worship, whether its pee of a Cow or dunk”- You seem to be at your magnanimous best today, my friend. But sorry to say, its quite misplaced and your statement is judgmental. Nobody worships pee of cow or dung. But you are quite free to say that and look down upon a group of people coz you believe that they do. You have that freedom in India. You have the freedom to say Islam is above everything else for you. You have the freedom not to sing the national song. (but saying that its 'offensive?) do remember that democracy is as much about majority as it is about minority rights.

What would you say, tomorrow, if an atheist group wants to remove the ‘Mana adhi nayaka’ and ‘Bhagya Vidhata’ mention in the National anthem? Would you support them saying it offends them and they are Indians too? Or is your cause only for what offends muslims?

whats up.....? the cooler boy... ;-)

cool down guys ..

Yaa Talib, that was a mistake and hope its not gona be repeated anymore...

"Khoon aankhoN ke charaghoN me saja lo warna.

Teergi shaher se rukhsat nahi hone waali"

"Saath chalna hai to Talwaar utha meri tarhaN.

Mujhse Buzdil ki himayat nahi hone waali"

"Abke jo faisla hoga wo yahiN par hoga.

HUMSE AB DOOSRI HIJRAT NAHI HONE WAALI"

hope you understand that...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

i've frequently heard this words in hindi movies

Shah se Barr kar Shah ka wafadaar

made for each other

whoever has had problem with whatever flaws you have just mentioned,,, went their ways and made PAKISTAN.....

thalib

WTF wrong with you???

wats wrong information i feeded here on this thread???

and wats wrong if i remember the golden period of our forefathers?

ajinpt.... Accept my challenge and tell me what story does this song tell abt India???

Since you cant understand that language, ask me to translate it for you...

more meaningful is Manoj Kumar's "Is desh ka yarooN kya kehna" than Vande.... or I love my India or Hindustani...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

I really feel Indians here need to stop feeding the trolls on every topic about India, they dont deserve to reminded again and again that all Indians are one.....

Its nice that you are trying to know India better, but all unwanted information is being gathered within you.

wat happened in 1857 was a war tactic than any religious thing, used by British to demotivate soldiers.

Do you wanna sing the song? then SING it! If not,then, DON'T SING IT! But Respect it, as it's a National Song and it has got lotsa stories to tell about the history!

I still believe in the freedom of speech and expression. By the way I'm an Indian and I don't have any problem with what you do or think about it; just my opinion..

---If you can't CONVINCE 'em, CONFUSE 'em!!!

lol

Arien

some times it remind me, that we were the Rulers in subcontinent, but then these bloody Mughals came and flooded all our powers :(

ajooba no man , dot.com is a buddy, from across the border, and its true that both sides have many misunderstanding and misconcepts about the other. Its good to discuss and clarify :)

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

You dont need to sing the song to be patriotic.Those who dont believe in , dont have to sing.

Dot.com these are groups which has other interests, you put this for a vote among the Indian muslims, I bet you the one supporting it would be minority again.

1857 u denied?..ME?? I was not born ..lol and dear, even that was another group not all hindus . and those were days when the cast systems ruling. which is not the case now. I love cow meat lol, the BBQ cubes with the fat is much more yummy, and am hindu. ;D

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Yawn

dotcom you are boring !!!

arien come on man, dont waste your efforts here

do u mean, that if they dont' sing "Vande Mataram", they will be less patriotic???

and if not, then why to impose it???

PS: And why in 1857 u denied to use the weapons of British govt, with COW's and Pig fat???

And common Hindus not compell to sing Vande........only terror group like RSS, Shiv Sena is demanding this .

Winn are you one of the member to this terror group or what.

There is nothing against Vande........ but being a Muslim cant' sing, and you will not understand , simple answer you are not a Muslim.

One less than the majority is called minority in democracy dot.com.

India has 1.3 billion in which 200 million is minority indeed.

When it comes to election and constitutional changes , its the majority of votes which is considered neither religion nor casts. and whatver the majority choose wins.

None would force any religion to do anything against their beliefs. Thats India.

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

u can't say 200 millions are minority, and plz be upto date, and see the statement of Chadam baram On a day that he was attending, the 30th general session of the Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind.

"The Jamiat resolution refers to a judgment of the Supreme Court “clearly stating that nobody can be compelled to sing the Vande Mataram”. said Chadam baram.

Just add additional lyric "God is Great" into the anthem, and it will be acceptable.

I’m not offended with your lack of knowledge and understanding.

Here goes your answer:

First of all, the issue is about how you deal with it. Its a democracy and if you cant ACCEPT what is, then you CHANGE it. If it offends someone they should proceed though the right channels and get the constituition amended. What you dont do is REJECT outright a national symbol endorsed by the constituition and provoke others to reject it. It is tantamount to saying that you and your organisation is above the country's system and constituition, not to mention heritage and culture.

If you go through the history of the case you will find number of petitions filed against this, but it has always been turned towards a communal issue.

In a country where you can sue a company for not getting a girlfriend after using a deodorant, you are not heard for an issue which is harmful for the society… ridiculous Democracy….

As per the rights of democracy, one is allowed to protest if not being heard (and that’s what exactly being done) and YES… Islam is above everything to us, because we believe that Quran (Allah’s Words) is our constitution, which is same for every Muslim around the world, and its clearly mentioned in Quran to respect your nation, but worship only one God, we do not believe in thousands of Gods / Goddesses, so we can add one more to it.

....

Secondly, in my personal view, I dont care a hoot about the gods/godesses mentioned in it coz I dont believe in them. (Also, if any of you have actually listened to the national song, you should know that the goddess mention which is in the original literary work is not there in the version that is sung as the national song). I cannot think of any places of worship(temples) where the song is sung either.

What I care about is the thousands of brave men and women (of all faiths) who chose 'Vande Mataram' as their final words before they walked into lathis,bayonets, bullets or gallows with their heads held high. People who gave up everything including their jobs, their houses, families and ultimately their lives.'Vande Mataram' to me embodies their sacrifices, to a magnitude that I cannot even begin to fathom. and if someone says that it offends them, it means they are offended by the very conviction,the essence, the spirit that motivated those brave souls to fight for their freedom. The very freedom that is used today to REJECT national symbols outright.

.

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I respect Mahatma Gandhi, but tell me what about those who fought for our country before Gandhi, from Tipu Sultan to Mughals from Mangal panday to Magadhs they used different verses to motivate their armies…. Why don’t we use “Inqilaab Zindabad”, “Nara-e-Takbeer Allah-o-Akbar”, “Tum hume khoon do hum tumhe Azadi deN ge”, “Jai Javan Jai Kissan”, “Bharat Mata ki Jai” etc etc….

These phrases made the convictions strong, and has nothing offensive for any religion, why don’t we use these phrases, just to add one more thing to it, “Saare jahaN se achha, hindustaN Hamaara”, have you ever seen a Muslim who condemned this song.

....

Third, pardon my ignorance, but is it a pre-requisite to reject anything outside Islam to become a good Muslim? Then do remember that the Indian flag that has Asoka Chakra, the wheel of dharma, which symbolizes the teachings of Buddha. Does that offend you? Have problems respecting it?

.

.

No! we don’t have any problem in accepting it as far as it does not offend our religion, your ignorance is excused, but the orange colour in Indian Flag symbolize Hinduism and Buddhism and Green Symbolize Muslims, that’s what we call unity in diversity.

.

When you are at it, you might as well declare a fatwa against Indian currency and coins. How can you use them on a daily basis coz it has the national emblem which happens to be the adaptation of a Buddhist stupa at Sanchi and has the words from a Hindu Upanishad. (Satyameva Jayate). Funny thing, no one ever got offended by currency notes/coins, that you encounter much more frequently than the national song. Money speaks a different language, I suppose.

.

.

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We don’t have any problem with any particular language, “Satyameva Jayate” means “hail the truth” there is nothing against Islam, no matter where it comes from what it says does matter to us.

.............

The post did not say anything about patriotism. I dont understand why people started on it.

Like I said, its a democracy, which means you have the freedom to express dissent and change what you dont like. When you are at it, do think how many countries are there in the world where you can REJECT a national symbol and the majority's beliefs and be immune to prosecution.

.

.

Just for your Information, no country in the world has as many Gods as India, I don’t mind what they worship, whether its pee of a Cow or dunk, as far as its not harming Islam.

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Dot.com - whats not acceptable there? how does a democracy work otherwise? is the minority what decides ?

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

"India is a democracy , majority decides and the whole lot follows."

Say something acceptable.

and Google ur interior minister statement for this song or anthem, wat ever u call it.

India is a democracy , majority decides and the whole lot follows.

India respects and takes care of the minority - so none would force you to follow anything agianst your religion.

Those who hoo and cry are those who wants unrest in the country. identify them and punish them.

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

First of all, the issue is about how you deal with it. Its a democracy and if you cant ACCEPT what is, then you CHANGE it. If it offends someone they should proceed though the right channels and get the constituition amended. What you dont do is REJECT outright a national symbol endorsed by the constituition and provoke others to reject it. It is tantamount to saying that you and your organisation is above the country's system and constituition, not to mention heritage and culture.

Secondly, in my personal view, I dont care a hoot about the gods/godesses mentioned in it coz I dont believe in them. (Also, if any of you have actually listened to the national song, you should know that the goddess mention which is in the original literary work is not there in the version that is sung as the national song). I cannot think of any places of worship(temples) where the song is sung either.

What I care about is the thousands of brave men and women (of all faiths) who chose 'Vande Mataram' as their final words before they walked into lathis,bayonets, bullets or gallows with their heads held high. People who gave up everything including their jobs, their houses, families and ultimately their lives.'Vande Mataram' to me embodies their sacrifices, to a magnitude that I cannot even begin to fathom. and if someone says that it offends them, it means they are offended by the very conviction,the essence, the spirit that motivated those brave souls to fight for their freedom. The very freedom that is used today to REJECT national symbols outright.

Third, pardon my ignorance, but is it a pre-requisite to reject anything outside Islam to become a good Muslim? Then do remember that the Indian flag that has Asoka Chakra, the wheel of dharma, which symbolizes the teachings of Buddha. Does that offend you? Have problems respecting it?

When you are at it, you might as well declare a fatwa against Indian currency and coins. How can you use them on a daily basis coz it has the national emblem which happens to be the adaptation of a Buddhist stupa at Sanchi and has the words from a Hindu Upanishad. (Satyameva Jayate). Funny thing, no one ever got offended by currency notes/coins, that you encounter much more frequently than the national song. Money speaks a different language, I suppose.

The post did not say anything about patriotism. I dont understand why people started on it.

Like I said, its a democracy, which means you have the freedom to express dissent and change what you dont like. When you are at it, do think how many countries are there in the world where you can REJECT a national symbol and the majority's beliefs and be immune to prosecution.

-----------------------------------

"I associated the purest national spirit with it(vande Mataram). It never occurred to me that it was a Hindu song or meant only for Hindus. Unfortunately now we have fallen on evil days. All that was pure gold before has become base metal today. In such times it is wisdom not to market pure gold and let it be sold as base metal. I would not risk a single quarrel over singing Vande Mataram at a mixed gathering. It will never suffer from disuse. It is enthroned in the hearts of millions. It stirs to its depth the patriotism of millions in and outside Bengal. Its chosen stanzas are Bengal’s gift among many others to the whole nation.”- Mahatma Gandhi.

@ Lassy...

Our religion teach us to die for our nation, being a Muslim it becomes our duty to fight for our nation any time if its required, and the same religion teach us that there’s nothing above Allah and Islam, for us religion comes first and patriotism is a part of our religion.

I have studied in an organization which is renowned for its world peace programs all over the world, we are taught that the World is one country and all mankind its citizens, and that’s an Indian school where we were never forced to read something that can create a problem between religions or faiths.

(CMS, India…. "May peace prevail on earth" ... Google It)

I don’t know how much of this you understand but below are four lines especially for you.

Yahi imaan likhte haiN, yahi imaan parhte haiN.

Hame kuchh aur mat parhwaao hum quraan parhte haiN.

YahiN ke saare Mashghal haiN, yahiN ke saare manzar haiN.

Wo andhe haiN jo in aankhoN me Pakistan parhte haiN.

Keep smiling...

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

@casanova.. i studied in a brit school. they teach us songs they sing to jesus. they teach us songs praising ALL GODS.they mainly teach us to RESPECT ALL RELIGIONS N EVERYONE'S BELIEFS!!! they teach the national anthem in school as later u cant blame the teacher for not knowing the national anthem.. its the song tat unites us as a nation.. fighting against it or about it just shows how poor our thoughts are..we are indians first and then comes caste n creed.. lets remember tat our forefathers fought this war togther to bring peace.. its a shame we have to fight among ourselfs for something tat united them!!!!!

Whoever wants to discuss more on this issue are nuts....

Let Indian peace prevail among all the religions, We all can see how unified the countrymen of other countries are, i dont want to take examples.

Indians love peace. PERIOD.

Some dont want to sing the national song, some dont want to hear the azan. How does that matter when we all share the same food grown in the same fields and the air we breathe???

Some losers just cant stand Indian peace.!!!!!!!!!

these types of objections are very common in india... it'l come & go..!

~noms~

-----------------------------------------

"Before God we are all equally wise ' and equally foolish" - Albert Einstein

That’s Simple man...

We Muslims are not allowed to kneel down in front of anyone but Allah... and the song means that “My country, My mother” we kneel down in front of you, which cannot be accepted in Islam.

India Being a democracy one should not be forced to recite anything against will, then why the hell children in the primary schools are forced to recite that???

Guyzz...Now what’s so difficult in understanding this....

“We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.”

Sir Winston Churchill

Well I will believe they are part time believers because you said so. After all you are the ultimate authority to decide who is and who isn't a believer or are you?

next question pls

Eco-savvy if that's the case why do I see so many threads here bashing people on the basis of nationality, some of them written by Muslims? Double-standards do prevail everywhere it seems.

this topic is discussed already

That is more than enough actually immi. I was just explaining why we sing that song. If its against anyone's beliefs they shouldn't.

we, as indian muslims, love our country, but we can never worship our country.

this is a poor topic...

if we are not patriotic, it will be against our religion but its worse if we are going against our own religion.

I don't what u may beleive in but we beleive in hereafter & singing a song against religion will do more harm than good

Pay peanuts & you get Monkeys

Source:

- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)

Patriotism is not related to singing or not singing a song. As the spokesman said "Patriotism does not require the singing of Vande Mataram. We love our country and have proved this several times, but Vande Mataram violates our faith in monotheism, which is the foundation of Islam,". (Rediff.com)

nop......patriotism is a part of iman but if this song goes against religion, .....

i don't understand what will happen if they stopped singing the song because no matter what song you sing, your patriotism is proven with one's deeds & not with what one sings!!

Pay peanuts & you get Monkeys

It's about praying Mother India, not Maa Durga metrocity. Still you don't want to sing it then it's your choice. After all as I said before not many Indians can remember the complete song anyway so this discussion is a bit needless to start with. I must be really bored to carry on with this :)

You are wrong in saying - What is your problem? If a group or a nation raises a question about my country,it is definately my problem. And it should be your problem too. Don't forget that we are Indians before Hindus,Muslims or any other religious group. Fatwa is not the way to go about expressing your opinion in a democracy.

Source:

- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)

But navdak, the meaning of Vande........is against Muslim believe.

Muslim believe "there is no god , expect the god "Allah"

here in Vende....... do praying to Durga and all.

We Indian Muslims respects all religion , same time we are not ready to compromise in our believe.

It is not a prayer song for any religion metrocity. It is just a patriotic song, when we used to sing it in the morning assembly in school, we were doing it for our motherland. I do agree though that we can do without such threads here.

With all respect to Hindus and Vande........Indian Muslims not against the national songs, but Vandemadharam is not possible to accept as a National songs because so far I know this is a Hindus prayer songs, praying to Durga and all, and not only by Muslims , expect Hindu religion all other religion in India rejected Vande......as a National songs.

Winn,don't bring such shit old information here,

all of us indian hindus on ql should make a pledge that we will not participate in any islam bashing thread again.. yalla yalla join me because u all know u cant beat me :>

i see this thread goin on the 2nd and the 3rd page

usual trend of qliving...sheeety thread taking flight

i m outta here

yalla bob corn and sab-rite blease

the show must go on

yalla!!!

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There are good people in this world, and they are not ONLY Muslims, you know. Geez.(last comments by alexa when she left Qiving)

if there is a fatwa against a national song or anything whats ur problem Winn...

are they forcing you to follow the fatwa

will fowlowing the fatwa make muslims less patrotic

.are you trying to provoke RB?

.are you trying to spread hatread amongst the qlers by posting such an intentional thread?

. are you following the usual trend of qliving by posting such sensitive thread so that you can have more points

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There are good people in this world, and they are not ONLY Muslims, you know. Geez.(last comments by alexa when she left Qiving)

ajooba: thanx!!

Veri: well, I jus wanted to see whether you could back up that sweeping statement you made. You couldnt but thats just fine.

Btw, what made Jana Gana Mana , the national anthem, funnily, was its musical score on that particular day. Strange but true. Will make your homework easy. Check out 'Freedom at Midnight'.

Imposing a song? Where did I say anything about making them sing that song? Did I say they had to? My point is this. Since it has come to this, lets think about every single group in India and see whether you can make a song pleasing every single one of them. If we can, I am all for having that. Its a democracy, right?

Tagore's stance against it is also news to me. Lemme do some of that 'my own homework'.

Bottom line, its not about Hindu Goddess. Its a song praising 'Mother India' comparing the country's might to that of a mythical goddess. Metaphor again.

Catch ya tomoro.

winn u r a bad apple!!!!!

salman: Your knowledge is wrong.Jana Gana Mana is the national anthem. Vande Mataram is national song. The national anthem was penned in bengali but the version being used presently is the (sanskriticed) hindi version. Did it sound like Bengali to you? Sad you missed the ubiquitous bengali 'o'. ;)

Btw, do give a search on who had the audacity to go to erstwhile east bengal and announce that "Urdu and only Urdu' can become their national language. The whole episode ended up in the fiasco of 16th Dec 1971. Chk it out.

You may not have heard about the other groups but your lack of general knowledge is not my problem... do your own homework...

If Jamait-e-Ulema Hind do not want Muslims to sing Vande Mataram, what is your problem?

Why are you hell bent on imposing a song on unwilling Muslims, Christians and Sikhs?... so what if they chanted it during the freedom struggle?... the same patriotic people rejected the song from being made the national anthem... Even Rabindranath Tagore has spoken out against Vande Mataram... does that make him any less of a patriot?

We boycotted British goods at one stage of our freedom struggle, should we continue to do the same now?

Bottomline... its a song praising a Hindu Goddess... Muslim leaders are entitled to inform Muslims that this song is against their religious beliefs...

Salman - Are you ok? :D

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

salman unfortunately truth is not defined as per your knowledge. Vande Mataram is the National Song and Jana Gana Mana is the National Anthem.

as per my knowledge Vande Mataram is not indian national song. indian national song is "Jana Gana Mana" and this "Jana Gana Mana" national song of india is written in Bengali.

how amazing. National song is not written in national language. LOL hahahahah

Veri: LOL...wiki again! Never heard abt any of those groups raising an objection against the national song. mind giving some references ?(other than a sweeping statement ). Again, I have not heard them declaring bans on the national song. Have you? and millions from the very same groups marched as one, unarmed against armed battalions,to the same slogan before 1947.

About the Durga reference. Look up 'metaphor'.

Your belief has a problem with the country's culture? Fine. I am all for having something very clinical, impersonal and antiseptic, for a national song ,if thats the price for keeping peace. Lets have A.R Rahman compose music for a non-offending passage from our constituition or even penal code. Forget all that freedom era literature. and,Yeah we will have a referendum on which section and article to choose for the purpose.

Lets start with the national anthem too and add all the other states instead of just saying "Punjab, Sind, Gujurat and Maratha Dravid and Orissa and Bengal".and then why is the anthem in just one language. lets have one for every language group. and whats this whole 'bhagya vidhaata' thing about? Wont it offend atheists? lets change that too, right?

On a positive note, I take it as the proof that india can confirm its position in the elite band of 'modern' nations where being a minority means you can question/discard any national symbol with impunity without being questioned for disrespect towards national symbols that have been adopted by its constituition.

By the way just to clarify an earlier comment, I am an Arya Samaji and I am NOT offended by Vande Mataram, infact I love it.

Had this been in china , he would be behind the bars by now. Its the freedom to question anything and everything which creates these kind of issues.

There is court and judiciary , let them file a case against it there.

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

The song united the whole of India when they were fighting the British, Now people are having problem with it?

How many Indians can actually sing the complete song anyway. Needless controversy.

Jana Gana Mana is National anthem and Vande mataram is the national song of India

"Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,

With her hands that strike and her

swords of sheen,

Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,

And the Muse a hundred-toned,"

Get real winn...

Also, please note that its not just 'A certain group' who have issues with it...

from wikipedia...

"Vande Mataram was rejected on the grounds that Muslims, Christians, Parsis, Sikhs, Arya Samajis and others who opposed idol worship felt offended by its depiction of the nation as "Mother Durga"—a Hindu goddess."

We love our "MOTHERLAND" always

Is it just a patriotic song or the national anthem ?

Who cares!!! India is a democracy, and that answers.

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

who's next???

They issue fatwa and I abide by it..... what crap...

These are jobless people who make living life hell on earth.Religious hatred are the cheapest and the dirtiest form of seeking fame and name.

winn, my friend i dont know what you are trying to achieve here. i think we should refrain from inticing hatred.

why dont u post something friendly or neutral or is is too challenging for you?