Advising the rulers in private

I went through your last posting a few times. I did not understand it all, but got the gist of it. Your comments regarding knowledge, practicing and preaching are exactly what i was trying to argue. You are much more articulate than I.

Islam is a beautiful religion. However, to the outsider, its true meaning can sometimes be subverted by the "holier than thou attitude " of the messenger.

Indeed if Abu Iyaad views himself 'only' as a translator who are we to tell him otherwise?

In his lectures how often does he go off of the material that is in the book he is reading and give his own opinions? At most, he will give a short explanation in laymen terms or through a simple example.

I will not comment on the statements you have made regarding what I assume you feel to be neglect on his part to his local community as I have not heard his part of the story.

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

Abu American

Brother I sincerely agree with you. Everything happens for a reason and Allah knows best our situation. If I get dissed it is from Allah as he wishes to guide me in a direction that I may not have take otherwise.

Allahu Alim where I will end up. InshAllah I only pray that my eeman will strengthen, my knowledge will increase, and my ability to raise and teach my children will improve. InshAllah may Allah make my children scholars upon Islam who will guide many to Islam.InshAllah alahumma ameen.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

A merry can

I think my expectations were more than warranted with regards to my own personal situation.

It seems that the community in Birmingham is better then my current one in the north east. Allahu Alim. I had no expectations other than normal human relations with fellow muslims who believe the same as myself. Unfortunately, what I have found is that many of them in my area have extreme cultural problems when it comes to socializing. A problem that I have not experienced with the more educated muslims (non salafis) of the community.

Really the point of me mentioning this was to relate my own experience with brother Amjad. A person who is revered all over the UK and who only deems himself as a translator at most. I believe that sometimes we can elevate a persons status based on him lecturing at the conferences and what is due to him because of his good characteristics. And their is no doubt that Abu Iyaad has many good characteristics such as sincerity, honesty, loyalty to his family, and many more.

As for the lot in Birmingham then I can not base it on many experiences as I have never lived in the area. Although my husband was at one point very good friends with Abu Khadeeja and when he saw us was not as welcoming. Please bear in mind that my husband is an Indian British born and raised in London and is acclaimed (professionally and within the community) for his social skills and speaking abilities. Nor are we over critical people in general.

After meeting other people, with similar backgrounds like us, who have approached the salafis this has been their same take as well. Having said that, the salafi community is in its infancy and I believe with sisters like me shelling out advice where I think it is needed then perhaps we can all look at ourselves and change. It may be that what works for some people does not work for others. And we should take into consideration that their are different strokes for different folks. And take on board the experiences of people from different backgrounds and regions. What may be representative in Birmingham for some people is clearly not the case for many other people who have come into contact with the spubs community. I believe Taqi Hashmi amongst others has felt the same as we have.

And I believe many of the replies above contest to the "we are usually right mentality" and "if your not with us then your against us" stance as well. I believe advice with evidence is one thing and not being open minded to our own faults and attitude is another. As muslims we should be critical of ourselves first and analyse whether we have indeed made the mistake and be careful before we advise others on wrong information. Or worse cause them a hardship by explaining it in a way that pushes them away from Islam. (bearing in mind that I am not supporting the ikhwaanee mentality of sugar coating things). We need to be careful in our replies when dishing out advice and be understanding of the person by using our hikmah in the situation.

This unwise manner of advising can seem common amongst the salafis and is only further evidence of a lack of social skills. Something people like my husband who has been gifted with superb communication skills notices. And other people equally as talented have been pushed away from the dawah due to it. (Who have not gone to the green lane salafi/ikwanee as a result).

And that brings me back to Abu Iyaad. He himself will not say he is more than a translator. Yes I am critical of him travelling around the world yet unable to unite the salafis in his own community. In my humble opinion, I feel his priorities need to be sorted out in this regard. And I also feel that by him travelling around the world giving lectures he is elevating his status in which he is not ready to take on the responsibility nor is he yet qualified. As a da'ee, we must strive to practice what we preach and be leaders in our community if we take on this role. And their is no doubt that many of you believe Abu Iyaad to be more than a mere translator of Arabic books due these actions. And this is something that needs to be clarified to exactly what are his responsibilities and status/skills thought to be within scholarly circles. And if he has proved himself with knowledge and practice in this regard.

And this furthers the conversation from Brit expats observation of not acting on what we advise. Is not one of the very first steps of giving Dawah knowledge. And what is knowledge in Islam? Knowledge is acquired by a person when they act upon that knowledge. Therefore a person who is not acting upon knowledge has not fufilled the requirement of knowledge nor are they fit to give dawah.

Having said that if it is an everyday person who says something right then yes I agree that one should follow it (if we know it to be right) and not be prideful due to the faults of the advisor. Nor should we judge them or be overly critical but, rather, we should be soft and straightforward with hikmah to guide them to what is right. May Allah guide us all to the right path and keep our feet firm upon it InshAllah ameen.

I believe brothers that rather then being quick to defend Salafi publication and the personalities within the organization. We should have a look at ourselves and see if their is any truth in what the sister has said. And at the very least take my experience for face value. And work from there.

And InshAllah I pray that in the future I will not have the same experience with salafis. And Allah will guide me to grow in my eeman and knowledge with righteous muslims who fear Allah and the last day and enjoin each other upon good. InshAllah alahumma ameen.

abu imaan said Re: ...

salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

sorry i jumped on this thread a little late - Princess Habibah, forgive me in advance for it is not my intention to say this except in the kindest manner, but may I just respectfully suggest (in regards to your comment of not having learnt anything since you have been here) first that - may Allah reward you for your zeal to increase in knowledge and may He increase you in beneficial knowledge -

THANK YOU BROTHER. JAZAKALLAH KHAIRUN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WRITE ON THIS THREAD. MAY IT BE OF BENEFIT TO US BOTH. INSHALLAH AMEEN.

My sincere advice, and indeed the religion is naseehah, is that if you have not done so already, that you should still take knowledge from the sources available -

• you can become fluent in Arabic (fusha) and grammar so that you can take from the sources and not have to rely on the translation -

• you can strive to obtain ijaaza in recitation and memorize

ive been here a year and hamdulillah have come a far way - I am not saying this for show but rather for encouragement - I learned tajweed, nearly memorized 5 juz (along with tafseer, mostly ibn katheer)- been learning Arabic and have taken courses on usool (hadeeth, fiqh, tafseer) with dr Bilaal at Qatar guest center - I mean usool is usool (usool ul fiqh doesn’t change much between the mazhahib for example)

the point is I am trying to take knowledge from where it is available - I didn’t shy away from knowledge simply because troid has some issues with dr Bilaal (incidentally, issues I have not observed but that is for a different time). It is not feasible for me with a wife and 2 kids to go to yemen, or madinah unv - so I strive to take as much from the authentic sources as possible

THANK YOU BROTHER. YES I HAVE BEEN THINKING OF THE SAME RECENTLY DUE TO THE LACK OF BROTHERHOOD WITHIN THE SPUBS COMMUNITY AND LACK OF FACILITATIN ISLAMIC LEARNING. THANK YOU FOR YOUR OPINION OF DR. BILAAL. I HAVE SEEN SOME AND I ADMIT THAT I STILL FEEL FEARFUL BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I HAVE TO WEIGH UP THE PROS AND CONS. WITHOUT GAINING KNOWLEDGE MY EEMAN WILL WEAKEN, MY PRAYERS WILL SUFFER, AND DESPITE THE CRITICISMS TOWARD DR. BILAAL IT MAY BE THE ONLY OPTION I HAVE TO TAKE. MAY ALLAH GUIDE US BOTH TO KNOWLEDGE IN THE BEST WAY INSHALLAH AND PROTECT US FROM DEVIATIONS.

I am sure you are well aware that the criticism that has been directed towards the salafis (some exaggerated and unjustified) include

the occupation only with knowledge of refutation (one might label and refute everyone, or be harsh with people more knowledgeable then him for a mistake he made, while not even understanding a simple idaafah construction or having memorized even a single juz) -

YES THIS IS VERY TRUE. MAY ALLAH MAKE US EASY AND SOFT PEOPLE.

this lack of knowledge spills over in areas of adaab (as you mentioned) so that a Muslim is harsh with his brother when he disagrees with him over an issue in fiqh, failing to realize the Sahabah did not all agree on every fiqh issue but maintained a unified front because its benefit outweighed its harm

YES I AGREE, HOWEVER ALTHOUGH I FEEL THAT LACK OF KNOWLEDGE HAS SPILLED OVER INTO THE ADAAB OF MANY SALAFIS IT ALSO EFFECTS OUR IDEA OF UNITY. I VERY MUCH AGREE THAT FIQH ISSUES CAN BE DIFFERENT AND PERHAPS THIS IS TO A SMALL DEGREE AN ISSUE WITH SPUBS. HOWEVER, IN MY OBSERVATION ANYTHING THEY HAVE REFUTED NEEDS TO BE REFUTED FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH AND FUTURE UNITY AMONGST THE MUSLIMS. I BELIEVE UNITY SHOULD BE ON WHAT IS RIGHT AND NOT ON WHAT IS CLEARLY WRONG. (IT SHOULD BE CLEARLY WRONG OR NOT WITHIN ISLAM). FAR TO OFTEN WE TEND TO OVERLOOK THE CLEAR WRONGS OF OTHERS DUE TO OUR OWN IGNORANCE. AND WHEN A PERSON COMES TO GUIDE US WE BECOME LAZY AND DO NOT CLARIFY IF WHAT THEY HAVE SAID IS TRUTHFUL. AND THIS IS SOMETHI I LOVE ABOUT ABU IYAAD AND THE OTHER PLAYERS AT SPUBS. MAY ALLAH INCREASE US ALL UPON GOOD AND SINCERITY AND MAKE IT EASY FOR US. INSHALLAH ALAHUMMA AMEEN.

Ibn Katheer recorded in his tafseer that the Prophet (p) said to some from amongst bani-israel during a dispute "Whatever knowledge you have been given, if Allah saves you from the Fire thereby, then it is great and good, but in comparison to the knowledge of Allah, it is very little.''

May Allah increase you and your husband in beneficial knowledge.

AGAIN THANK YOU BROTHER AND I WILL TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE SAID ON BOARD.

As well as the comments by the rest of the people on this thread. It is a relief to know that if I had lived in birmingham then things would have been different. Certainly this gives some sukoon to my heart. Thank you.

Asalaamu Alaikum rahmantullah wa barakatahu

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

Princess said, "I am obviously pointing out that the kind of support that you have personally recieved is not common amongst the salafis..."

As someone who moved to Birmingham just over 3 years ago to live in a community of Salafis I must agree with Abu American that I had a lot of help and support from them and find the group of people Princess is referring to be polar to the same ones I know.

And I know hundreds of Salafi brothers (and I assume their wives and kids) from all over Europe who have come to Birmingham to be a part of this Salafi community that would disagree. As well as a minority of Salafi brothers from other than Europe who would laugh at this statement.

I will not say that there is no one who will agree with you. I am sure there are. But I cannot allow the assumption you have made to be prevalent in people's minds when they think of Salafis in general and Birmingham in particular.

I agree with Abu American that it is what each individual expects from the people. I expected nothing and received a lot of support (in tangible and non-tangible ways) and to those people I am forever grateful.

Allaah has a way of making things easy for individuals whose intentions are sincere and actions are pure. (Not saying that you are insincere or that your intentions are not pure!)

There is a German brother that came here to visit about 2 months ago and mashAllaah, Allaah facilitated it for him to move here and setup a house and find a job quickly for him to bring his family here.

He never asked for anything except advise on certain small things like, how to register his family with a surgery or what service provider should he take internet from. Rather it was individuals who came to him and asked him how THEY could aide him and assist him.

I sympathize with you Princess that your situation was not as ideal as you would have liked it to be by moving to the northeast of England. I hope you realize now though that perhaps your expectations were a bit too high.

Expect the worst and hope for the best....

'Ata' bin Dinar said, "All thanks are to Allah who said {And it is the disbelievers who are the wrongdoers} (2:254) but did not say it is the wrongdoers who are the disbelievers." ---ibn Abi Hatim 3.966

Harry, part of the Religion is to sincerely advise others to do good and abstain from evil.

A person might:

(1) Find himself doing things he ought not to be doing

(2) Dislike the fact that he is doing them

(3) Try to advise others not to get involved in same wrong doings he is involved in

There are many examples but a simple one is that of an alcoholic father who has done many regretful things due to his addiction - he does not want to see his children fall into the same troubles so he repeatedly admonishes them not to drink.

I don’t think anyone would find that unreasonable.

You are indeed a fortunate person to have such a person in your life..

In all honesty, no insult was intended to you or Islam. I just didn't agree with your viewpoint.

My apologies also for coming accross as obtuse..

Better to go to sleep with a clear heart :)

I used your comments as an example, but never used insults with Umm-Salayam , who was courteous and tried to explin things. That we disagreed is irrelevant, because the message of Islam was being discussed.

You, by calling me thick and moronic have shown that you still have a lot to learn. I suggest you get reading the scriptures and learn humility like Umm-salayam and Abu-Imaan..

What you're trying to say is that a Muslim person can go and eat pork, but at the same time advise his fellow muslims that they should not.

It is ok for him to do this because he is weak willed , but shamed before his Lord..

Forgive me, but I find it laughable.

what we were trying to say is we convey knowledge and give advice , even if we are falling short in actions,because we are humans and we are weak and sinful, some more then others, but we still must try to act upon this knowldge we have .

For some of us it's easy for others it's harder, not everybody is the same.

As for AbuAmerican, he knows better then to cuss and swear,but he was saying he has more shame before his Lord then trying to put on a show for people.

And as I said before , Islam is free from the peoples action.

There is nothing wrong with the religion of Islam .

discussion has proved that most people DON'T practice what they preach.

You are basically saying that I can preach / guide using refrences from a holy book, but I am not obliged to follow the same, because its between me and my Lord.

Abu American can swear and cuss as much as he likes, but can tell others to follow the teachings of the prophet. (who by all accounts was a pious man and would never even dream of getting angry, let alone swearing at another human)

And then you wonder why people get cynical about Islam :)

Most hateful it is with Allâh that you say that which you do not do. (As-Saff 61:3)

And off course there are a lot of hypocrites out there. But only Allah knows what's in their hearts.

HADEETH 8: The Muslim Seeks to Make Excuses for Other Muslims

From Sa'd ibn 'Ubaadah (radiyallaahu 'anhu) who said that Allaah's Messenger (salallaahu 'alaihi wa'sallam) said: ...and there is no one who loves to accept an excuse more than Allaah, and because of this he sent the bringers of good news and the warners...

Reported by al-Bukharee (Eng. Trans. 9/378/no.512) and Muslim (Eng. Trans. 2/782/no. 3572) NOTES

So a Muslim seeking to make an excuse for his brother and those whom he loves will cause good will to spread instead of antagonism, and will bring about ties of relationship instead of estrangement. Since if Allaah, He who is free of all imperfections, grants excuse, and He is the Creator and the Most Great, then how can you O servant of Allaah, a weak creation of his, not seek to make excuse for others? Rather as is said: "Seek an excuse for your brother." Likewise there is the saying: "the believers seek to make excuses for others, whereas the hypocrites hope for the downfall of others".

But this is such a deep subject to cover...

As in give sincere advice it's an obligation on the Muslims and not pointing fingers...

Also telling some one what to do or not to do in reference to quran and Sunnah is simply conveying knowledge not pointing fingers insha allah

Because

''Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.'' (Saheeh Sunan Ibn Majah)

“Convey from me, even if it is one verse.” (Saheeh al-Bukhaari (3461)

The one who helps the Muslims to learn their Deen will earn also a great reward

See there is much benefit in it......

I hope that helped insha allah

there is a subtle difference here -

There is a difference between (1)advising with sincere advice and (2)publicly humiliating or embarrassing someone else -

There are many narrations that are quite clear on emphasizing that when one wishes to advise someone, he must use wisdom, good words and fair preaching.

Allah said:

“Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious…” (Qur’an 16:125)

Advising someone in private is part of the wisdom and graciousness because it is sincere (e.g. no one knows the details of the conversation except you, the one you’re advising, and Allah is the witness over all things)

However telling someone off publicly and exposing someone’s wrong doings is a sin. As it is said whoever exposes (publicly) someone’s shortcomings - because of that sin Allah will expose his faults and there will be no end once that begins.

Naturally the person who is being embarrassed publicly will retaliate and say “look at you”. Now if the person truly wanted to advise his brother, he would have done so in private, with good words and sincere advice.

:)

Your words are correct and we can all learn a lot from those quotes..

I am sorry, but I cannot agree with you on the issue we were discussing, because to me , it is hypocracy.

I will give you an example that I witnessed myself....

I worked for a large company in Saudi Arabia.

One day there was a lot of shouting in the office. I came out and found the reason..

One guy had been telling another about behavior and being a good Muslim, following the principles etc etc

The other person took offence. He had been on a business trip with the guy the previous week and seen his actions regarding drinking and womanizing etc.

He , (rightly in my opinion) thought that this person had no right to quote the scriptures to him.

From your argument you would justify it!

Britexpat I agree with you in the sense that if a person actually implements in his life the same good deeds he is inviting others to follow; or if he possess the same characteristics (e.g. honesty, bravery etc.) that he is inviting others to instill in their lives, then his message (or da’wah) might have a more profound effect in the hearts of those whom he is calling. His call indeed will have a greater resonance.

There is an excellent book called “Awakening” which outlines many of the fundamentals of da’wah taken from a series of lectures by Sheikh al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him and all the great scholars). The point you have mentioned has been mentioned repeatedly through-out the text and is an excellent point.

In addition, Allah tells us about the words of His Prophet Shu’ayb (as) who said:

"I desire not to do behind your backs that which I ask you not to do..."(Qur'an 11:88)

So there *should* be consistency; the point however I made in my previous post (in concurrence with what Abu American said) is that *even* if a person is not fulfilling all of the good traits, or if he is falling short and committing sins, he must still *advise* others to do good and refrain from evil (even if he himself is incapable).

Likewise, suppose a person who is committing adultery comes to me and says “Brother, stay far away from adultery, it is destructive sin” - I should, with humility, thank him for his advice. Why? Because it is good advise and good reminder, regardless if it coming from one who is comitting it! :)

I should not shun him and say “who are you to advise me” - because doing that is tantamount to arrogance - which the Prophet (p) said the one with an atoms weight of arrogance will not enter paradise.

Allah knows best :)

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You can find me on facebook. Amar Chaudhary, location, Qatar.

"I’d say in a given week I probably only do about 15 minutes of real actual work." - Peter, Office Space

Many thanks for your response and clarification.. I think you missed my point or I did not undersand things..

My argument was simply that "You should practice what you preach".. To me, It's no good saying that I can tell you what is right and wrong but that doesnt mean I am doing it.

To me this is one of the main reasons that people are getting cynical about religion and religious leaders.

Once again,many thanks.

britexpat - Salam akhi, there are 4 aspects here:

1) Doing good (the individual person strives to implement all that is good in his life)

2) Enjoining others to do good

3) Avoiding evil

4) Enjoining others to avoid evil

People often group these four categories into just two and feel that you either:

a) Do good, avoid evil, and enjoin people to do good and forbid them from evil

or

b) You don’t do good and you don’t avoid evil and likewise you neither enjoin good nor forbid evil

They base that view on the verse in which Allah criticized the children of Israel when He said:

"Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practice it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?" (Qur'an 2:44)

However Allah criticized them due to their failure to practice what they themselves advised others to do, however He did not criticize them merely for advising others.

Advising others to do good and avoid evil - as well as advising to what is the truth, is a command from Allah, regardless if one is able to implement what he is calling to in his own life - as Allah said:

"Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant." (Qur'an 7:199)

And this makes sense in real life - for example, surely an drug addicted father (who at least has some faith in his heart) would try his utmost to advise his children not to do drugs.

Now whether his advice will have any real bearing on the people he advises due to his own mishaps is a different story.

Furthermore, the scholars always advise to take what is true and good regardless of who it comes from - if it is the truth, the follow it.

There is a famous narration in which Iblees (shaytan) informed Abu Hurayrah of the benefits of Ayatul Kursi - the Prophet (p) said indeed he (shaytan) is a liar but he spoke the truth.

InshaAllah this clears things up

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You can find me on facebook. Amar Chaudhary, location, Qatar.

"I’d say in a given week I probably only do about 15 minutes of real actual work." - Peter, Office Space

You say "I can tell you what is right and wrong but that doesnt mean I am doing it or commanding you to it."

surely, if you are putting yourself in a position of telling someone , then you should be practicing it...

If i may broaden this.. If your mentor, or your scholar friend "Abu Khadeeja" i think it is, gave you some advice on how to act in life, wouldn't you expect him to adhere to that as well?

Abu American

After PH's postings, which i found very informative, I actually read up on the Salafis. I was impressed.

With your comments though, it seemed to border on the old "do as i say, but not as i do"

Anyway, let's agree to disagree.

I know you are a martial arts expert, so i don't want to enrage you, but I was a little concerned about your comment regarding cussing and swearing..

Surely as a follower of the Prophet, this is someting thing you should not be doing, or admit to doing!

salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

sorry i jumped on this thread a little late - Princess Habibah, forgive me in advance for it is not my intention to say this except in the kindest manner, but may I just respectfully suggest (in regards to your comment of not having learnt anything since you have been here) first that - may Allah reward you for your zeal to increase in knowledge and may He increase you in beneficial knowledge -

My sincere advice, and indeed the religion is naseehah, is that if you have not done so already, that you should still take knowledge from the sources available -

• you can become fluent in Arabic (fusha) and grammar so that you can take from the sources and not have to rely on the translation -

• you can strive to obtain ijaaza in recitation and memorize

ive been here a year and hamdulillah have come a far way - I am not saying this for show but rather for encouragement - I learned tajweed, nearly memorized 5 juz (along with tafseer, mostly ibn katheer)- been learning Arabic and have taken courses on usool (hadeeth, fiqh, tafseer) with dr Bilaal at Qatar guest center - I mean usool is usool (usool ul fiqh doesn’t change much between the mazhahib for example)

the point is I am trying to take knowledge from where it is available - I didn’t shy away from knowledge simply because troid has some issues with dr Bilaal (incidentally, issues I have not observed but that is for a different time). It is not feasible for me with a wife and 2 kids to go to yemen, or madinah unv - so I strive to take as much from the authentic sources as possible

I am sure you are well aware that the criticism that has been directed towards the salafis (some exaggerated and unjustified) include

the occupation only with knowledge of refutation (one might label and refute everyone, or be harsh with people more knowledgeable then him for a mistake he made, while not even understanding a simple idaafah construction or having memorized even a single juz) -

this lack of knowledge spills over in areas of adaab (as you mentioned) so that a Muslim is harsh with his brother when he disagrees with him over an issue in fiqh, failing to realize the Sahabah did not all agree on every fiqh issue but maintained a unified front because its benefit outweighed its harm

Ibn Katheer recorded in his tafseer that the Prophet (p) said to some from amongst bani-israel during a dispute "Whatever knowledge you have been given, if Allah saves you from the Fire thereby, then it is great and good, but in comparison to the knowledge of Allah, it is very little.''

May Allah increase you and your husband in beneficial knowledge.

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Eco I haven't learned anything! Nothing at all! Thats why I'm so hot about the salafi community. I feel like it has stopped me from progressing further in my quest for knowledge and practice of al-Islam.

InshAllah sister, their are loads of scholars to learn from. One way is by visiting dammaj, yemen where sheikh muqbil started a camp in his village as a place of learning. He converted his whole tribe from shia to sunni MashAllah la quwatta illa billah. And after his death Sheikh Yahya has followed in his footsteps.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

for so many years didnt learn anything, whereas PH living in non islamic country achieved so much. May Allah protect you PH ameen.

I think that if you have more information than her, then you should discuss her topic, otherwise you should realize that there are people who know more than you do, and you should not hate them & attack them for that.

I noticed you are having this continuous problem with many people here.

.

Means: Mensa Densa... from experience Mensa scores are a bit of a smokescreen... really they only impress SOME of those that have high ones.

:-)

here, you might think they are deep rooted here bcos of Royal connection, which is not the case.Most of the salaf scholar are not well versed with english, this the reason we cannot hear them

Abu american do you know bro Abdur Rauf Shakir btw. 

 Forced marriages, shuhaib hassan and Zaik Nakir and the status of elevating doctors is not in the spubs dawah or manhaj. I made that quite clear Abu American that this came from the cultural aspects of the mirpuris and some of the muslims who reside in the city where I live.

Here is a paste from salafi talk regarding the ettiquettes in being in gatherings. Gatherings that happen normally in other places do not happen in my town.  Such as meeting and seeing people every day like abu khadeeja's brother. 

I am obviously pointing out that the kind of support that you have personally recieved is not common amongst the salafis. And this is one of the biggest complaints against them from people observing and agreeing with the dawah. Let alone those who are not quite as consolidated with their beliefs.

It is incumbant upon all of us to establish a brotherhood with like minded people who are a support for one another!  Being that many spub salafis have little or no families to fall back on when times become rough due to the islamic concepts we believe and practice. (if we would like to stay on the manhaj that is)

http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=11&Topic=5124

Etiquettes (To Be Observed) In The Gatherings Of The People

And when you sit with the people and congregate with them, then make humility the sign by which you are recognized (i.e. a characteristic of yours), and let Fear of Allaah be your cover (i.e. that which protects from sins), and giving advice to the servants of Allaah as your abiding way.

Be eager to (make) every gathering in which you sit with the (people) to be that which comprises goodness.  Either research into affairs of knowledge; or advice on religious matters; or direction towards a general or particular Maslahah (benefit); or making mention of the blessings of Allaah; or making mention of the superior status of praiseworthy manners, and good etiquettes; or warning against that which is detrimental to the wellbeing of one's religious or worldly (affairs).  And the least of that is that they seek the gains from their occupations by way of the permissible (means) and not the forbidden (means).

And that you behave well with the young, the old, and your peers.  And that you deal with each of them in a way they deserve, and to have respect for the one that deserves to be respected and honoured.

Be eager to make your sitting (with the people) at ease by way of (uttering) speech that is appropriate and good, even if that was in relation to the worldly (affairs).  That is because when (permissible speech) and (permissible gathering) becomes fruitful/turns out well, sitting together becomes easy, conversation is made easy, the heart feels tranquillity, and all of that returns to praiseworthiness/is attributed to praiseworthiness.

The sensible resolute one/the steadfast one achieves abundant goodness by way of the gatherings of the people, and he becomes more beloved to them than all (beloved things).  This is because he enters upon them with (matters) which they approve of, and sayings which they desire.  And the foundation in all that is success in taking over control of all the affairs placed before them.

And these affairs become more emphasized in a journey (i.e. when people accompany one another on a journey).  This is because during a journey sitting together is prolonged, and the travellers are in need of having someone who revives their hearts with good statements, the news of events, and joke, (if all this is truth and not too much), and to assist them with the essential matters of travel.

Good etiquettes makes (the one who possess it) more pleasurable to the people than the pleasure derived from a cold drink, and its weight/influence bears heavier upon their souls than hard stones.

He (Subhaanah) is the one who caused the dissimilarities between His slaves with regards to their manners, actions, and in all of their affairs.

And Allaah (Alone) is the One Who grants success.

Source:  Noorul Basaair Wal al-baab fee ahkaam al ýIbaadaat Wal Muýaamalaat Wal Huqooq Wal aadaab.  Of Imaam ýAbdur Rahmaan As Saýdee (rahimahullaah)   Page 64-65

May Allaah reward our brother Abu Talhah (Dawood Burbank) who checked the translation, and our brother Abu Hafs (Abdur Raqeeb) who assisted in translating the article.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

AbuAmerican said LOL I don't care what the ...

LOL I don't care what the people say about me being on this forum, they KNOW who I am and if I want to cuss, swear or otherwise I do it because shame is before Allah not the salafis or anyone else. I fear the judgment of Allah not the people in the dunyaa.

As for sitting with non salafis yea I do as do many many others including those in Birmingham. Am I taking my deen from the people I do jujitsu with? Or Kick boxing? uh no so the point you are making is lost and plus I have asked others in Birmingham to check this thread to see if I am wrong or you are so my words are open and clear and said without fear. Being me doesn't change my menhaj, being me doesn't make me suspect, it means I am nothing but a human and prone to anger, hate and all of the other vices people are prone to, how does that make me suspect in Aqeedah? Lol! So now I am sufi and believe in wahtul wajud because I am on a forum? Or I believe the Quraan is created and have become ashari in aqeedah? How does this make my menhaj suspect? Lol I think you have mis understood something.

I never claimed you were any of these things. I said that being on this very website and mixing with non salafis will often have people make judgements about you.  Abu Iyaad does not sit with any person (as per according the sunnh) in this regard.  

As for Abu Khadeeja I have never known him to be a back biter and I know SEVERAL cases where he went on the line to help people and they have repaid him with harm so for him backbiting... I find this quite.... ludicrous wa allahu alaim because I know Abu Khadeeja VERY WELL and this is not an attribute I know him to have.

I did not say that abu khadeeja back bit. I said another brother backbit my husband. A brother upon clear error and overly strict by any knowledgable persons standards.

 "It was only after recieving an unwelcome from Abu Khadeeja. And mainly because of a friend of his" ( a friend of my husband and abu khadeejas) "who burned him bad and backbit my husband for no islamic reason that we started to feel something was amiss."

Yes spubs has helped me several times but mostly in my deen and that is the most important thing because reliance is upon Allah and not the people no matter what their aqeedah is. You have misunderstood this deen yaa ukhtee kareem, take the ilm and leave the people they are a test to you me and each other. This deen isn't about this one and that one its about obeying Allah and his messenger till death overtakes you.. Don't be a burden on the people and they wont be one on you.

From Umm ud-Dardaa (radiyallahu anhaa) who said : I said to Abu Dardaa (radiyallahu anhu) will you not seek for things to entertain your guests with just as others seek for things for their guest? So he replied: I heard Allahs messenger say:

"Ahead of you is a steep mountain which will not be surmounted by those who are over burdened."

So he said I wish to lighten my load fort that ascent! [Al-hakim and Al-Baihaqee in Shu'abul emaan]

Pay heed to the companions.. Revelation was sent down to them they avoided the people including each other unless there was a need. They united and departed for the sake of allah only.

You expect too much of them sis wa allahu alim.

Right! I just don't believe that they avoided each other. Where is your proof! Well rounded proof that they avoided each other without supporting and helping each other, giving in charity (first to their community, and visiting each other when sick? Please! How will they know about these things unless they communicate. The situation in the is not the situation of living in a small village where knowledge is easy to gain. And one can visit each other.. wives see each other on the street. Just look at the salaams.. It is incumbant to greet each other with Salaams! Surely that is called communication. Unless you echo it like a parrot and don't mean it from your heart.  

Actually I expected very little from the brother and his wife! Well alot to some people. I only expected forthrightness, honesty, enjoining each other upon good, and teaching the other what knowledge we know.  By eating with such people and with the Prophet is how people learned the correct Islamic method. By talking with them is how we learn the correct Islamic way of speech, by reading their articles and having them scrutinize us is how we learn how to write our own articles.

Thank God you have people from spubs reading this. By all means invite them to respond to my accusations that I have made numerous times before.  And while they are at it I do request that they keep all suspicion away from me. When in doubt then ask! And If one of us wrong then that person should sincerely apologise. So please prove I am wrong! Because so far none have bothered to be helpful on my quest for knowledge despite asking for it!

Asalaamu Alaikum rahmantullah wa barakatahau

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

you and your husband (and btw, yes you have mentioned MANY times about his mosque and books so we all got that point by now I am sure). For example, you said: "But the real icing on the cake was moving into the town where I live now. Which is full of backward villagy mirpuri pakistani salafees. Who refuse to mix outside their own families, have forced marriages and have the worst manners one has ever seen."  Aren't you once again backbiting and passing judgment -- in fact in a most abhorrent way by ethnically steroetyping people in a very ugly way?

their are certain common denominators which outsiders to villagy indians can observe. These differ depending upon the village they are from and their educational and financial background. As well as the time and reason they came to the uk.  Most education non-villagy background pakistanis know full well what I mean when I say this.  A few of these common denominators are lack of socialising outside the family, then outside the castes and in the local community. Hence the complaint by many british that many of the muslims have created insular communities. One will find this less so with the more educated pakistanis who have come to work in the uk with professional jobs.  Also many of these pakistani's also only marry within the family, forced marriages, abuse is rampant, women tend not to speak english despite living in the uk for the last 30 years etcr. 3 types of people have resulted from these people (in general but with many subsects).

Some of the second generation went to university and established the businesses started by their fathers or thru the families savings.  These have usually gone on to have a very ikwaanee outlook on Islam and take it very political.  Few have been able to pull themselves out of the gutter and become successful professionals with a more british outlook on life. And the negatives in the more educated  have through their own family culture become confused about Islam and caused them to partly reject the religion and eager to practice it. Or this confusion has caused them to dive deeper into more extreme views of the religion or against practicing the faith.

Others from these people have not had access to education and remained in family businesses (which are successful  and can make alot of money).

For the most part they tend to marry their first or second cousins and stick to the very cultural viewpoints of their parents. Others have again become extreme in rebellion of a culture that has limited their chances of education and working either away from the family business or easing the pressures of unhappy marriages they were forced into. And then we have the ones who leave culture, religion and partake in love marriages instead often fighting with the family and in some cases running away from them where they may get into things as deep as being the biggest drug dealers in the uk or gain the education and spouse they would have liked in the first place.

Very few of them become staunch salafi/ikwaanee supporter and even some of these type of background were known to be suicide bombers on 7/7.  They range from Brailwees although many of them were hanafi in pakistan before they came the only masjids in the uk were brailwee masjids.  Others have become staunch tableequis and Deobandis and one will often find families competing between salafiya and tableequi in the rebellious quest of my religion is better than yours scenerio.

These are just a few examples of the different types of mirpuri people. Obviously, I haven't even begun to look at the types of pakistanis and arabs and what they are upon yet.

Now among these people all of them have some common factors. Because of their insular natures of staying within the family and caste systems one would be very hard pressed to actually have a friendship with them unless you are part of their family.. Even members of their own caste do not often visit each other unless for necessity . And the problems are worse in the salafi villagy families where a complaint often made against them by members of their own caste are that they never visit anyone. And people have to visit them! And then of course of course we have the intricacies of the caste system that is still predominate in ever more educated families. Where some families look down on the poorer members of the group or those with less status. In the salafi case many of these arrogance issues have come with a mentality that says I have more knowledge then you because I have found the right dawah.

Now imagine this case with outsiders who come to live in the city. Be they educated punjabi, indians, arabs, and all their own social baggage that comes with them.  Many will find the community insular. The more ikwaanee people who are educated such as doctors will be welcomed to give talks by both the educated and uneducated of the community and thus raising their status and respect.  Of course those giving the talks do not need to know a lick about islam but that doesn't matter because they are doctors or lawyers. Right?  And these type of issues do not stop with the mirpuri community as many of the educated punjabi, indians, and arabs will not mix with them (although they are happy to give talks) and often form their own circles of friendship based on status.  Thus raising the whole status and greed problem already existant.  Usually the arabs, kurds, and afghanis all form their own seperate groups from the educated indian/pakistani community.  Of course, all the while continuing pleasant conversation in passing between members of all communities and rarely forming good bonds for the sake of Allah.

All these issues aside.. we now have the salafi community. Broken by the rift of the 1980's and early 1990's pitting against themselves.  Abu Iyaad trying to overtake a local masjid at one point and refuses to make jummah there and opts for the more arab ikwaanee masjid instead. Although often leaving his prayers at home.  Where as the salafi masjid Imam is going around giving circles and bringing people to islam he is also supporting people such as Zakir Naik, and Sheikh Shuaib and the functions they inhabit. 

And now the salafis in the community torn between the two break up and dispelled from Abu Iyaad's lack of manners have gone to the local salafi masjid. (the one amjad staged a coo and tried to take over).  Their attitudes are very representative of the typical villagy mirpuri backgrounds they come from accept now they are in chaos concerning the religion and lack support.

And amidst all this chaos here come hubby straight from sufi/ikwaanee cambridge. Leaving the city and a very successful career and promotion to work part time so he can study with the great Abu Iyaad Amjad Rafiq. Something recommended by  Abu Khadeeja himself. Whilst here he attended a few circles and started to realize that the brother wasn't teaching anything new. Nor was their a strong salafi community here. And that Abu Iyaad's manners were lacking. He found a friend Asghar who went to establish a business in saudi and lives next door to sheikh Rabee.  (And by the way, despite his mirpuri villagy roots where forced marriages are still predominate in his family he actually wholeheartedly agrees on the things I am saying about amjad and his idea of brotherhood thanks to his own open mind and study under the scholars. ) May Allah reward the brother and make him successful. InshAllah ameen.

Now in this type of neighborhood their are a handful of spubs salafis. All of which are looking for guidance, community and support and those needs are not being met. No circles are established, no united front on homeschooling where Amjad could dictate the curriculum among other things. A few educated doctors, lawyers from indian, arab and other backgrounds who are not accustomed to the insular mirpuri community and caste system and very much need the companion ship as their friends have become their family whilst living abroad. And my husband and I who are sacrificing everything just to have that community that we both need so much, the knowledge that we yearn for where one of the greatest da'ee's in the uk reside.  Abu Americans clique tends to think that these people reject salafiya because it goes against their desires. But my husband and I have personally been witness to a dramatic change when they hear what makes sense and has proof. MashAllah you will never feel alone with these people and they will always welcome you in their house, home and lives. Supporting each other in the practice of what they learn and making it easy for everyone around.  Overlooking each other faults. You will be pushed to find anyone in the salafi caste ridden community do the same.

 And another thing caught my attention: "I swear by Allah we only moved here to be closer to Abu Iyaad and to enjoin each other on good." How do you know that won't be the case here. Have you let these people know that you are coming here and what your expectations of them are?

I have studied under sheikh Fawzaan, sheikh rabee, sheikh muqbil's daughters in the past to name a few. They are no way like some of the da'ees in the uk. Very approachable and easy  to talk with. And always concerned about  their fellow muslims. Hence my question regarding the circumstances that surround Abu Americans own experience.

 What if they don't want to open their homes to you socially or have you educate their children? It seems to me we might be reading the same kind of thing about the "scholars" here in Qatar by this time next year. 

I offered to help out.. not educate their children. I asked that we combine our different talents and bring the children together in what was possible. Obviously I understand that Amjad has his own program with his kids (although I believe it is mainly his wife who just has a GCSE). My  offer to him was to bring the community together by the 3 sp salafi families homeschooling the kids to bring them together and join in some activities. So they could socialize a bit. My children do not have a big family to fall back on.. And to be honest Amjads children and the other salafi families kids are extremely anti social (another aspect of their caste backgrounds) mainly due to lack of mixing with other children. Furthermore, this would give the mothers a chance to brush up on our own Islam and read Islamic books and practice tajweed together.

But to be honest, it was a blessing in disguise for me because I notice a big difference in my daughter. She smiles more often, is cheerful and not alienated from the country where she lives. English manners are superb in that they always say please and thank you.  And it has opened my eyes to the insular nature of some salafis and its effect on their children. Alhumdulilah I have seen the difference between kids forced to live this way and am personally much more impressed with the  parents who sent their children to English schools and still instilled Islam upon them. And mashAllah some of their children are the best of muslims I have seen. Allahu Alim.

They are better able to understand the dawah and ask intelligent questions. And their practice, respect, and caring for others seems to come genuinely from the heart. MashAllah la Quwatta Illah billah.

And I am now prepared for dissappointment PM. I still take knowledge from Abu Iyaad but with the realization of some of his personality traits that also inhibit him.  And I am much better prepared to handle some of the issues with the scholars equipped with knowledge on how to advise them in private and in the open.  And since acquiring this knowledge I have tried to give them naseeha. And most people hate naseeha concerning their faults.

You ask me to look into myself.. and I assure you that although not much can be written in a forum or even a blog. I have really really looked into myself and asked outright questions of advice from Abu iyaad himself and the scholars.  How to deal with the situation and if I am being OTT. And Alhumdulilah none of them have given me any reply in the negative at all. Also I am not the only one who feels like this.. as I have mentioned before. As many many much more knowledgable people then amjad feel exactly the way I do or so they have told me.

Anyway I'm sorry for such a long post. Obviously I don't expect people to read this and understand.  As for the reason behind the so called stereo types. Stereo types which I hope have been made quite clear not to apply to the whole group but give an idea of the current situation I have faced over the past years regarding the aspect of villagy mirpuri salafis and some (points that pertain to the discussion) of what they represent and how it has seeped into the dawah. They are not opinions held by me but that which is apparant and as in every group of people issues that need to be dealt with.  I would not have been able to learn about these differences if it wasn't for my own mother in laws caste/villagy mentality and family dynamics,  the observation of neighbors and talks with some of the salafi and pseudo salafi youth in the area.   It was also helpful seeeing the difference between those pakistanis coming from India/pakistan, educated and without implementing a caste system any longer. And my previous experience of muslims in America and the middle east before residing here.

PM if it is me then this would be a problem I would have faced with whoever I meet. However, I have found some great friends who not only challange me intellectually but also support my husband and I islamically.  In fact, it is my own reserved nature and previous salafi inhibitions that I sometimes part myself from these people although I am always welcome and they do not mix with people of biddah.

I do not know how much you know about the whole salafi thing going on around the world. Particularly in the uk and US. But these are just my experiences of the spubs salafi situation.  And I haven't even begun to talk about the pseudo salafis yet.

Anyway I'm off. As I am sure my experiences will be unwelcome and taking out of context through everyone read. I dot hope that it does help people in the future who may experience the same situation I have. May it give them a broader perspective to relate their own experiences with. InshAllah Alahumma Ameen.

Anything I have said which is wrong is from myself and Anything I have said right is from Allah subhana wa ta'ala.

Anyone who wishes to know what the salafis are upon can go to www.spubs.com or www.salafitalk.net for references

Likewise don't take my personal experiences. Who knows I might be bloody crazy as some people seem to suggest so by all means check them out yourselves and make your own experiences.

InshAllah alahumma ameen.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

surrounded with Mirpuri's

Wow, my Home Town of Birmingham is Famous!   LOL

Princess I think I am in Green Lane qeela wa qal 

 Abu American I am talking about Abu Iyaad amjad rafiq who lives 3 hours from birmingham.

Your experience is yours alone and perhaps I would have found it different if I ever lived in birmingham Allahu Alim.

As for almost leaving Islam. I think it is very crass of you to judge another person in this regard.  I have told you and everyone else my experiences because of the great problems and solutions I have found in them. If you find it easy to comprehend such things as child marriages, marrying underage children to men without their permission (fatwa of Imam baaz), and such things then that is completely up to you. I didn't join Islam to be one of the blind followers to this religion.  And the actions of people like Amjad just push a person who is already struggling with these concepts away.  You are very right that when I joined Islam it was based on the sugar coated version. Even my husband stumbled when I asked him hardcore questions under one of my interrogations.  Yet here I am standing strong in the face of adversaries fighting for islamic truth. Sometimes I go wrong in that fight and sometimes Allah causes me to have correct wisdom.. Allahu Alim.  One thing I do not do is change the religion in any way just to prove my point or make it more digestible. I face the collision head on and hope I survive the crash.

InshAllah sincerety will always win at the end of the day. Hence my great hope that if this religion is correct (which I believe it is) then others (like me) will also be strong enough to survive the crash as well.

Obviously I can see that your back to the whole pointing fingers and sounds alot like people who are against spubs.  How do you know they are not saying some truths in some (obviously not all) their accusations? Is it not the salafi manhaj that we analyse ourselves and look for faults before finding it in others. Also, since were on the subject, I never listened to people or befriended anyone against salafiya during my staunch days and little crisis of identity. POINT BLANK!

It was only after recieving an unwelcome from Abu Khadeeja. And mainly because of a friend of his who burned him bad and backbit my husband for no islamic reason that we started to feel something was amiss. It was consolidated by Amjad's lack of brotherhood in the community. In which I lived here for 2 years and although they knew full well my husband married never bothered to even invite us for dinner at his house.  In fact, I had to search out her number from a friend just to make contact or I would have known NO salafis in the community.  In which they never offered me any other contacts either. And now you are accusing us of somehow going astray and deserving of such treatment??? For the sake of Allah open your mind a little and stop being so suspicious.

Just because you had a positive experience in birmingham does not mean that the lack of adaab is not rampant among spubs. And I can see what an impact they have had on you Abu American as you mix with non salafis. Something Amjad and his crew are staunchly against in every shape and form.  Just being on this website would make you held up for scrutiny by them. And since the scholars we know about in Qatar are not of the Bilal Philips Ilk I almost assume you don't have any better communication with spubs either or you would already know about their whereabouts!

What I would be really interested in hearing is why, how and when you were helped out by the birmingham spub salafis. I bet a very interesting case and observations could be made based on your situation.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

And I would also like to add that the type of dawah skills these brothers are getting across is serious lack of communication skills.

The Prophet used to ask the condition of the people and their names. Why is it that Scholars and da'ees cannot find the time to do the same.

Communication really doesn't happen unless people talk to each other! Its not all about sitting down and listening all the time.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

f thats the case then why haven't you privately pmd me concerning the matter?

I am not trying to insult him much to abu americans perception that I am. I, like you, am trying to point out a problem that is inherant in the salafi dawah. Lack of adaab and brotherhood in their call to Islam!

This guy is a da'ee and therefore up for open scrutiny. And I am not character assinating him as a result but showing that he doesn't practice what he preaches!

I believe Islam is a religion of brotherhood and companionship. One muslim helping another muslim upon good. Hence the whole religion is about giving naseeha..

And the religion was passed between people through the actions of the muslims.

yet these are not what is happening these days with the da'ees here in the uk particularly. To break it down they have social barriers due to their cultural backgrounds that make it such a challange for them to change. And the attitude that we should just pack it in and strive is condescending. 

Sure we should strive and be firm in the challanges that face us.  It is just not always easy to do so when muslims are not helping each other upon good.

One example is that of the mormons.. My God.. they have a beautiful system of brotherhood within their community. They have a womens group that visits each other for child birth, shares used clothing, babysits each other kids, visits the sick, and helps their women folk even in daily chores. To top it all off they have a loads of aid supplies and are the first people on the scene of a crisis.. such as the tsunami.

What do our salafi people do? They decide to bury themselves in the house without contacting the outside world. Translate a few books and think this is the dawah. Far from it!

As I told you before pm I used to be a staunch salafi.. of Abu americans type. My husband even started a masjid in cambridge supported by Abu khadeeja. And you can find his book about the hajj recommended by many scholars. It was until I started noticing the problems within the spubs. The falsity and insular dawah. Not allowing anyone of knowledge to give talks or even talking to them like human beings... I.E. when they speak they give advice rather then listening to advice! Unless of course your a scholar who is well publicized that is. Having baby upon baby with absolutely no help from other people. Homeschooling our children without any contact with the outside world.

Not teaching people arabic in the community.

But the real icing on the cake was moving into the town where I live now. Which is full of backward villagy mirpuri pakistani salafees. Who refuse to mix outside their own families, have forced marriages and have the worst manners one has ever seen.  I swear by Allah we only moved here to be closer to Abu Iyaad and to enjoin each other on good. 

It was because of the lack of companionship and the hard to understand tenants of Islam, such as apostasy, that I almost left this faith. I live in the town that one of the utmost da'ees in the uk resides. And he does not leave any room to approach to even ask knowledge from yet can give talks and fly around the world teaching people. (and I am only one of many who feel the same way) What gives?

If it were not for my almost equally knowledgable husband and his friend who is more knowledgable then Abu Iyaad in Islam then I would not be a muslim today.

May I also add that the brother who has more knowledge then Abu Iyaad always has time and a phone call! Despite being just as busy if not busier with 6 children (one disabled) and an elderly father. Nor does he have a big family (whole village) to support him.  And he guides muslims in droves to Islam as a result of taking care of his own backyard and having circles. As well as translating and publishing books. (the only difference being that his family actually speaks arabic and understand Islam, then he gave circles to the community, then started to publish books).

Furthermore Abu Iyaad learned his arabic from a book.

Tells people not to study arabic at university yet refuses to teach himself.

Has many problems with his translations

Does not mix with the community at all!

his lectures are boring as he does not know how to give a talk (abu khadeeja is good at this) (and one should not give talks if this is the case)

His talks are reading from books which any person can do!

They are not difficult to understand unless a person lacks in knowledge or intellect

His wife does not talk about religion at all

I have seen a brothers house where amjad gives talks and the wife wears holes in her clothing. Where is the charity? Why does he not know how bad their condition is?

And also the school that was recently established and needed someone like Amjad to be the khalifa of the school!

Shall I go on!

I believe in the aqueedah these guys preach and the manhaj too. But I am well aware of their arrogance and problems pm.  And the fact that they refuse to take advice in order to establish a better brotherhood. The Prophet Mohammad was never so insular (and this is a very tribal problem taken from their respective cultures.)

If it were not for educated brothers like my husband who regularly give talks and have successfully helped to convert the ikwaanee brothers in my town (including family of Abu Iyaads) then we would have absolutely no one.  In fact, when I didn't have a place to stay it wasn 't Abu Iyaad my husband called but another pseudo salafi brother whose wife offered first thing to have me stay with her despite the hardships. As we already learned that the salafis are not dependable people after I had no other salafi to help me watch my daughter during my second birth and had to beg Abu iyaad and his wife to watch her. (despite how easy it was for them I might add)

I believe in this regard we could learn from the ikwaanees and educated muslims. Often ones who move to this country and have no family and realize that their friends are their family!

Am I a salafi? Not the kind you think I am! I am extremely open minded and willing to accept my own faults. And just as you once said that you advise those you love this same method applies to me.   And thank God for opening my eyes to the truth of my own faults inshAllah ameen.

Here is a blog by a brother who like many salafis before him felt the ill effects of lack of brotherhood. http://umarlee.com/category/rise-and-fall-of-salafi-movement/

Unlike these people I was blessed from Allah ar-razaaq to have some knowledgable people around me. To help clarify the matter. And, mostly, had to figure things out on my own. I could have left these people completely .. but I realized that in every generation part of knowledge is lost. And this is only a sign of the times we are in. 

The salafis are correct on most issues. However their adaab is seriously lacking.  And my IQ is extremely high. My mensa score was 159 and my husbands 155 pm. So I can and do read numerous books every day including the most recent turkish "reinvention" of hadeeth and take it all in based on my knowledge of salafiyaa.  And what I have found is that half of the da'ees really do not have alot of knowledge! Man they are seriously lacking and stopped challanging me about 1 year after I started learning from them.

So as you can see. I am really not judging these people. I am making clear observations based on their actions. Actions which I have realized are due to their imperfect nature not the religion they are calling too.  MashAllah they have alot of good within their works and are upon good and pure Islam. (the islam that can be textually proven that is).  I have read and my husband went to school with people like Sheikh Shuaib's son and even went on hajj with the family to know what they call to and based on the evidence have found them to be on clear error in their manhaj.  The salafis come from mainly uneducated (what some social scientists call working class) backgrounds and unfortunately this has seeped through in their dawah.  Whereas the more educated in the community are extremely different and better mannered. Even with regards greetings!   His friend also comes from an educated indian family and we have noticed a HUGE difference in brotherhood!  

And of course, remembering that everyone makes mistakes as well. And I have to agree on one issue being that the salafis find it hard to take naseeha just like the rest of us. I.e. particularly when mentioning that they are quick to judge (at times) and fail to meet the proper conditions around naseeha. As well as being very insular (another accusation by many other then me). And lack of support for their own muslim community. Hence as you will read one of the major reason, according to brother Umar's blog, is that many people left when they had no support in the community. Something pseudo salafi/ikwaanees were able to give!

And it always really confuses me how some people can see such problems and ignore them believing full well that Islam is meant for the kind hearted and caring of this ummah.

i.e. we should care of each other, our condition, and enjoin good! Just as the Prophet used to do! And strive when it hits us back in the face!

Hence the reasons I am writing this. Because I feel that removing a barrier in the road also has a blessing in it. We should write about the problems that many many salafis have faced and will face. And be prepared for what awaits them in this dawah and from the da'ee's.

p.s. sorry about jumping to and fro.. I have so much to say/ on my mind on this subject.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

Alexa du'aa or prayer is the weapon of the believers!

It is thought that du'aa from the people, their patience and advice upon knowledge will be the best way to changing the condition of the ruler.

 The condition of the people dictates the the condition of the ruler as well.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

 The problem Abu American is that our children have no muslims to hang around with. As you said it is important to protect our children!  In my community, Abu Iyaad is the only Salafi with knowledge that I would dare to have my children expose themselves too! As the muslims lack knowledge in my community.

I understand what you are saying about Sheikh rabee! However, he welcomed you in his home. With Abu Iyaad many have not felt as welcomed as yourself.  As I mentioned he is very fine to travel around the country meeting people and even 3 hours to birmingham but does not bother with his own backyard!

you say he writes knowledge in his books. What is writing about knowledge unless one practices that knowledge.  Did you know that I recently did not have a place to live and I am neighbors with Abu iyaad and his wife! And they do not even know about it! That is how great the brotherhood is! However, I call them once every few days in order to ask about their condition and make sure they do not need anything from me.

Furthermore,  by socialising with the muslims for dinner, masjid and other matters it becomes easier to meet the needs of our muslim brethryn. Something the Prophet himself used to do.  Being negligent of the muslims has no excuse. Nor does not going to jummah or creating a jummah every friday in ones homes amongst the brothers.

YOu say he is busy! And that is exactly what I am trying to say! he is busy in things that are not on his priority list. Rather he needs to enjoin good upon his community and welcome the muslims! And I am not talking about ikwaanee tactics here either.

Its great you feel happy with this kind of life. But my husband and I just do not cherish the same feelings as yourself. My husband started a masjid in cambridge, has written articles and books, and does have some connections with the scholars. However we have not felt more alone as muslims at any other time in our lives since moving up north TO BE CLOSER TO AMJAD!

Would you like me now to leave such people alone. People who clearly go against the adaab of our Prophet Mohammad SAW?

Abu american some people can happily live life without any brotherhood.

 for me and alot of other brothers and sisters this is not the case. WE need our community to help support us in the hardships in life.  Unlike Amjad we do not have the luxury or desire to travel to so many different countries, gain fame and respectability, and as a result have people lend us money to buy a very large house outright.

Nor do we have a big family to help us out. Or give us companionship. I.e. Amjad and abu khadeeja (both of the same family) have a massive family here in the uk which gives them no need to interact with the outside muslims.

Unlike them we have alot of salafis who because of this type of behavior you are condoning have left the manhaj and sometimes islam completely.

Day after day, I am sitting here lacking Islamic knowledge (I've already read, understood all of the lectures from Amjad).. And through all the obstacles in life following Islam has just made things 10000 times more difficult for me, my husband and my children. 

You ask me not to say these things or be more understanding. I know amjad very well! I am best friends with his wife! In what she allows! And I am the closest practicing muslim neighbor to him.. And yet he has failed and pushed people away from Islam because of his lack of brother hood. 

And by the way, if you ever saw his children you might think again about doing right! the kids don't even smile! Another reason we placed our children in regular school.

It is extremely unhealthy for children not to have contact with the outside world! To keep them segregated in the house. And if the opp. comes that we can mix with those on the same aqueedah and manhaj as us then it should be welcome. Even if it is only for a few hour a week!

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

hi all

i m insallah moving soon to doha to work can any one help by information about the city ,transportaion food accmodation,wher i can get it

hope u all fine

thanks

Very interesting indeed.

May i interrupt and ask who are the gentlemen that you guys are speaking about?

thanks     

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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

Abu American,,

May Allah reward you for your compassion.

Unfortunately this is not the case with the people such as myself, husband, and friends who have tried to befriend and make contact with the brother. 

Really a da'ee has no excuse when other salafis live in the area and one is not concerned with them in any way. And this is something that greatly bothers me about Abu Iyaad. 

As a da'ee he is responsible for the city where he lives. And it is incumbant upon him to take charge.  If you sit at one of his circles he will not stay to ask you how you are! And if he does on one of the rare occasion he will not keep in touch nor enquire about your condition. Nor will he sit with the muslims who attend his circles or invite them. And even he has refused to homeschool his children with my children (where I am better qualified to help). And as a result I have been forced to send them to a non muslim school. Although we are upon the same understanding, aqueedah, and manhaj.  Nor does he offer naseeha or help when he hears of something beneficial that could make life easier for the muslims (like investments).

For a man who has written articles on brotherhood and establishing Islam in ones own community. Travels around the world delivering lectures. May Allah reward him. These are serious accusations against him!

And as a result of his very insular and unwelcoming nature he has pushed many willing and able people from knowledge. And his circles have dwindled down to very few people who attend them.  And, in fact, it was because of him, his wife, and other neighborly salafis and muslims that I almost left Islam!

Furthermore, they do not welcome people to give lectures who are better able to deliver them. Personally I feel that if he cannot step up to the plate then he should pass the knowledge on to someone else who is more able than himself to establish Islamic brotherhood in the community. At the very least, establish brotherhood among the sp salafis!

Now if one were to be around the scholars of Islam they will find them welcoming, kind and giving.  People who take the time out to enquire about the people, his neighbors, and help each other upon good. Without which this religion would fail miserably! And it is one of the things that set a da'ee and a scholar apart!

However, I forgive the brother and pray for him. May Allah make it easy for him and other da'ees and the scholars. Sometimes when we come to know of da'ee's personally they dissappoint us because our expectations of them are too high. And we are not prepared to face the fact that they may have faults. Often this pushes us away from the true Islam, as it did me at one point, but then we have to realize that it isn't the dawah which is wrong... only the people who deliver it!

For years my husband was also pushed away by the same people. But since knowledge has come to me I have tried to share it with him. By making him realize that no body is perfect and we all lack in some areas. That doesn't neccessarily mean that what those people preach is wrong. Or that we fall victim and led astray from the truth perhaps thinking that their dawah is wrong like some of their actions. As we should overlook the faults and find good as much as Islam allows. InshAllah ameen (and warn others about it due to their prominence in the community and hope of rectification since they are unwilling to accept naseeha in this matter)

And I have found this to be the true meaning of being a stranger. Even when we are practicing the true Islam. We will find people of the same methodology who will be distant from us and unhelpful through our and their errors. Leaving us often to fend for ourselves against our persecutors.

This religion has come a clear guidance. And May Allah increase us all upon knowledge. InshAllah ameen. And keep us with the righteous. And guide us to righteous companions that will help support and nurture us in the deen. InshAllah alahumma ameen.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

Abu Iyaad lives very near to us Abu American.

He is extremely reclusive and does not mix with the muslims in our area. MashAllah his aqueedah is very sound and I can not fault him on the books he writes. Which are written with clear evidence.

Yet I have often complained to him, his wife and the scholars about enjoining good where he lives and inviting the muslims upon good. And this is an area I feel he has failed in.

 Where he gives talks on telelink but does not bother to teach local muslims the religion where it is needed. Including Arabic!

I also find them very insular and unwelcoming in dawah as well.

InshAllah.. it is good to let people know about these weaknesses as not every muslim is perfect. However, the books are superb and well written!

 Needless to say I am best friends with his wife and live about 2 minutes away from him. However, since living here we are feeling an immense void in learning our religion and being around knowledgable muslims. And having someone to talk to!

Very very sad! May Allah make it easy for us and guide us to knowledge InshAllah ameen.

If I have said anything wrong then please forgive me inshAllah ameen.

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

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