Arabs Charged Over Dutch Cartoon
An Arab organisation is to be put on trial in the Netherlands over its publication of a cartoon deemed offensive to Jews, prosecutors say.
The cartoon, published by the Arab European League (AEL) on its website, questions the Holocaust.
It said the decision to prosecute illustrated bias against Muslims.
It said the same standards were not applied to the Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who made a film including cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
Last month prosecutors said they would not put the far-right MP on trial for distributing the controversial Danish cartoons, which caused a storm of protest after their publication in 2005.
However, he is still being investigated separately for inciting hatred against Muslims by making statements comparing Islam to Nazism.
But Dutch prosecutors said the AEL cartoon was "discriminatory" and "offensive to Jews as a group... because it offends Jews on the basis of their race and/or religion".
The cartoon shows two men standing near a pile of bones at "Auswitch" (sic). One says "I don't think they're Jews".
The other replies: "We have to get to the six million somehow."
A spokeswoman for the prosecuting authority said the group could be fined up to 4,700 euros (£4,100), though in theory a prison sentence was also possible.
I THINK IN THIS CASE , IT IS NOT A FREEDOM OF CHOICE
or the democracy
but they made such a good comments hahahaha
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
because I majored in it and went to Grad school to further my studies. That's how I know that there was no "throne" or monarchy in the Third Reich -- lol
:-P
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
The point is that truth is truth, falsehood is falsehood - it does not change the facts no matter what may come of it.
:)
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
The Dutch are wrong, if people want to publish stuff like this then let them. They are easy to ignore. Same with cartoons in Denmark, the most intelligent thing muslims could have done was to ignore them as stupid infantile publications. Instead it led to death around the world.
:-P
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I am not playing one side off against another, and it is irrelevent to tha truth if jews 'trade' on their past woes.
:)
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
maybe I did not make myself clear, I was countering Shuaibkazi's 'proof' that 6 million could not have been killed because they would not have all fitted in the ovens - as I pointed out that is a red herring.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
politically motivated idiots to deny all truth based on inability to give exact numbers.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I said purging meaning driving out and killing. I'm fine with you using the term extermination too. I just think that we shouldn't get bogged down in the numbers. I also believe that many Jews have overplayed their hand by pushing for and receiving such protected -- almost sacred -- status that isn't given to anybody else; including those people they are trying to purge from their created state of Israel.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the importance of giving a number to the issue.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Agree with you totally. These actions were abhorant then as was the genocide of Rwanda's Tutsis in 1994.
Numbers do matter because they give substance to the magnitude of the atrocity.
if you think Russia and Austria have been in conflict anytime since 1945?
If you cant even get the essentials right (it was Georgia about a year ago) how can you be trusted with the details.
:P
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
under the Third reich and still believe it is just media spinning then I would say that you have allowed your own anti-Israeli agenda to cloud your vision and thinking.
And which recent Russian Austrian conflict?
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
There is a big difference between a purge and attempting to exterminate every jew under Nazi occupation, that why the accurate numbers are important imho
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
from the Third Reich so whether it is 6,000,000 or 1,000,000 makes little difference. Too often people get hung up the number and deconstruct the truth from there.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I agree with you apart for the question of numbers because to deny the scale is to deny the Nazis attempt at genocide.
It gives the impession that the Nazi's didn't have this intention, that there was no concept of the 'Final Solution'
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
The actions of discrimination, driving people from their homes into ghettos and camps, killing many and allowing others to die from starvation of lack of medical care all based on religion or ethnicity IS WRONG. We say it is wrong when it happens to the Palestinians so it must also be wrong when it happened to the Jews.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Crematoria were only used on a minority of Jewish victims, that is why the 6 million could not have been 'disposed of' this way.
The vast majority of victims were just put into mass graves and buried, or burnt in the mass graves and then buried.
Also you forget that no one has said that 6 million were 'processed' in the camps - those killed during Germany's eastward advance were killed where they lived until The Nazis realised they were wasting bullets - that's when they decided to build efficient death camps and use gas to kill large numbers.
You also forget the Warsaw Ghetto, no camps needed, they just died of starvation, exposure and shootings.
The assertion is that the Nazis targeted and killed 6million Jews NOT that million Jews were killed in Death camps.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Suprising statement that it is not considered offensive to the muslims in general Brit, all this while I thought there has been street demonstrations, boycotts and burning of flags throughout the muslim world just to air their grieviances
But thats what the media wants you to believe, i have read the accounts of some survivors and the German authorities which controlled these camps could never have been able to do so much of what has been proclaimed by the Media.
For example the furnaces (Gas chambers / Incinerators) are the way people are cremated after death in Germany (people arent buried in Germany usually, but cremated), and it has been a big controversy that the remains of the people found in these furnaces (Gas chambers / Incinerators) were dead before they were put in it rather than what the popular media says ( that the Jews were burnt alive)
But thats all in the past and if anyone wants to question history, thats their right to rationalize that particular part of history,
But jews are heavily emotional on the subject to ever think on the contrary.
[img_assist|nid=96642|title=Prop|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=369]
"Do you really want a discussion or just a bunch of idiots agreeing with you?" - PM
Definitely..
"This cartoon can be ... considered to be discriminatory," the prosecution said in a statement, adding that it was offensive to the entire Jewish population.
The Dutch public prosecution office said it had decided not to take action against the republication of the Mohammad cartoon in the Netherlands because "it was not considered offensive to Muslims in general."
Another blow to freedom of expression?
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
Not to worry about CC. Most important we are all matured for these kind of discussion thread. People like this need to be sideline sometimes.
Oh what a show of intellect and manners, in lack of argument, you resort to personal insult. Typical. I shouldn't have expected rational discourse from an obvious imbecile, but I guess everyone deserves a chance. Sorry I ain't stooping down to your level. If you were raised like a potted plant, doesn't mean the rest of the world was. On with the show...
ghettos and camps is not a myth. The numbers may not be correct but anyone who thinks Hitler did not have a mission to rid his Nazi empire of Jews is only showing their ignorance. Surely you studied history, Salax.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
you talk as your name suggests. Be happy in your vitriol.
My point being oh f^ck witted one, just after the cartoon about Mohammed, which Muslims HATED; an Arabic cartoon film was released about his childhood. Oh by the way, he was drawn, so therefore something 'against' Islam.
This is about taking the piss out of Jews, somthing Jews hate just as much as Muslims hate having the piss taken out of them.
I rest my case, tit for tat.
______________________________________________
The path to true happiness is paved with gin and tonics :-))))))
Tit for Tat I suppose. Now that you bite me on my nose, and I will step your tail. Caricature is an expression of thoughts and to an extend signals conflict of interest. These guys could be drawing that for the purpose of hitting back, not at religion but their sheer hatred of the jews. Now if the holocaust happens and was well documented, how could one challenged its authentic. If only we can dig Hitler out of his grave for his explanation. Its only a lame excuse to start yet another 6 days war.
How does someone drawing a caricature of the prophet have anything to do with someone else drawing a caricature implying holocaust revisionism? Your point escapes me entirely.
Nothing was done about the prophet cartoons, neither were they pulled nor was the artist in any way penalized. It was "freedom of speech". Now when a group of Arabs satirize the holocaust, it is not freedom of speech. Please read the opening post, and at least try to comprehend it before jumping to conclusions :P
As for your simplification of foreign relations and your delusions about who wields influence, I will say nothing but reiterate that everyone is entitled to an opinion sadly, even those who do not know a tidbit about the reality we live in.
this is about a group of 'Muslims' who have drawn a cartoon inciting racial hatred. They hated it when somebody drew and commented on an image of Mohammed.
Looks to me as though they are trying 'to get their own back'. Makes them look pathetic and hypocritical in my eyes.
This is why this problem is not sorted out, tit for tat all the time. You hurt me; I will hurt you shit!
About time they all bloody grew up. Kicked America into touch, declared a war and see who wins.
I bet you with the backing of the might of the Middle East, with America out of the frame, Palestine wold get some if not all land back.
As long as they keep up (both sides) this pathetic childish rubbish nothing will get better.
______________________________________________
The path to true happiness is paved with gin and tonics :-))))))
nicely put, but they've developed their tactics into such a fine act I'm worried it's gonna lead to another holocaust, should the extent of their manipulation of the west for their selfish goals become evident and accepted. I hope this never happens, it wouldn't be good for us as humans.
Dear Stone Cold, your devil's advocacy falls flat on it's nose on this occasion. The Haredim (orthodox jews) have wisely pointed out a passage in the Torah, that clearly states the jews will try again and again, and repeatedly fail, in bringing about God's land on earth, precisely because every time the land will not be built on Kosher foundations. There's nothing Kosher about what's going on in Israel today ;)
And if Jesus Christ is still alive today, how would he feels about the jews. Condemmed them.
and putting them in Reservations. We still haven't done enough to rectify that grave error, in my view.
We can find many parallels in history, Stone, but that doesn't make it right and doesn't mean it won't come back to bite the perpetrators in the butt.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Oh well, it sounds like the ethnic Indians didn't build the states. The immigrants did.
the two groups heero.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Ultimately I believe that those Jews who are leading the parade to remind everybody of their past trials and tribulations, while hypocritically oppressing Palestinians, have contributed to this double standard while playing on Western guilt over the events of WW2. I also see the tide starting to turn and think most people are beginning to see this great manipulation for what it is and lose patience with their "protected" status to the detriment of everybody else.
In other words, I believe they have overplayed their hand.
...they're no different now from the Arabs...or, shall I say, they have also become the Arabs themselves.
This Middle East environment really is getting to the same mental (political) effects for those who have stayed long...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
I'm referring to people who were themselves driven from their homes and herded into ghettos in Europe, who then came to the Middle East and drove people off THEIR land and out of their homes to be herded into a new Arab ghetto.
I don't care whether the Israelis or Palestinians feel this is their land promised by God. I am talking about the unethical and amoral act of driving people out of their homes against their will and without even compensating them decently.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
hypocritically oppressing Palestinians, technically I won't think so. Its a country that exist biblically against the geographically given land named after its inhibitants. Can we now say its the promised land that they wants to protect. And any reowned religion would acknowledge it.
Ultimately I believe that those Jews who are leading the parade to remind everybody of their past trials and tribulations, while hypocritically oppressing Palestinians, have contributed to this double standard while playing on Western guilt over the events of WW2. I also see the tide starting to turn and think most people are beginning to see this great manipulation for what it is and lose patience with their "protected" status to the detriment of everybody else.
In other words, I believe they have overplayed their hand.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
wow !
I agree
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
In this instance , I must say it reeks of double standards. It seems that one is not allowed to say anything derogatory regarding the Jews, esopecially if connected to the holocaust.
I am a firm believer in freedom of expression, but the rules / boundaries must be the same for all.
I'm afraid you understood whitefeather wrong. He clearly stated his disgust with "anyone who slanders". But the hypocrisy is indeed typical of certain European nations.
I doubt Rushdie would have moved as many copies of his rather average novel if Iran didn't put a bounty on his head. Sensationalism is a b***h, and the Streisand effect is a notion that is entirely lost on muslims. If they let things slide there would be less of a problem, although I don't know, probably not with today's militant atheists...
As for this issue, it should be clear to us that you can talk s**t about anyone and everyone, except the jews. Even a passing remark will incur organized wrath and character assassination. Your public life is effectively over and the only people who will support you openly are those that you really don't want to be supported by (neo-nazis)... This is the modern order of the jungle.
and I still can't figure out what the excitement is all about. Neither can I understand why any people in a certain religion become all worked up when others question their religion/philospohy or whatever.
It seems to me that any religion can take care of itself and does not need mere mortals to protect it,,,same as the God or Prophet excitement,,,it seems to me that the Prophet is big enough to take care of himself...
Perhaps its not a fight over religion at all,,,,maybe its a human tribal issue thats getting glossed over.
I can see it both ways, as I said it's arguable that it's promoting violence.
It will all be decided in a court of law and they seem to have a good chance of beating the rap - unless it's for holocuast denial(Iwill have to check if that is against the law in Holland)
Like you I don't think such denials should be a crime.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
In this case, the jews get offended for what others drew on them. Just how are we going to fix the problem
It is not illegal to insult anyone in the Netherlands however it is illegal to incite violence against a person or a group.
Gert Wilders views maybe reprohensible but he stayed just the right side of the law - although I do believe the Dutch authorities are trying to make a case against him stick.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
I don't see the cartoon calling for the killing of Jews. It is about questioning the numbers and notion of the Holocaust, which to me shouldn't be "protected". If someone wants to show their ignorance by arguing that Hitler didn't attempt the systematic destruction of Jews, then let them look ignorant. Numbers don't really matter.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Stone Cold are you a jew or a dutch? And if I were you I wouldn't associate yourself with The cartoonist who drew the prophet(SWS). Also these Arab drew a cartoon about the holocaust, they drew the Prophet(SWS) a huge difference.
Yet the laws allow them to insult our prophet but when the tables are turned it's illegal right?
Anyways they might not regard him as their prophet but his is. And God's punishment transcends any human laws or rights(which he will give after the hour).
Now you see. When I draw, the whole world of yours protest. when you draw, we use our head to think rationally first.
BOYCOTT and GIRLCOTT RELIGIOUS THREADS!!
only if one is a muslim, as obviously non muslims do not regard him as a prophet and as such have nothing to fear.
What is true and what is not is another topic which I decline to get involved in.
What we are talking about here is Dutch law as it is written not what you would like it to be.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Typical hypocrites. Anyone who insults, slanders, etc. The Prophet, has a horrible punishment awaiting him after the hour.
I would have to say that the difference is that the cartoon, as described in your post,arguably calls for killing jews - to incite physical harm to anyone is a crime.
That is the only difference I can make out
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."