Are we still humans?

DISGUSTING.

Yes!

Are we humane ? NO!

This poor woman is getting killed for a crime she says now that she did not commit.

Land mines are still maiming thousands in laos and Vietnam.

Children are dying of hunger in Africa.

Women are being raped brutally in Africa ands other parts of the world.

Hundreds of innocent people are dying in Iraq, Afghanistan and other conflicts.

Human rights and civil liberties have been trodden on in the name of security.

Cild labour is still widespread in many countries.

Lastly, is stoning any worse than execution by firing squad ?

Ok Eco, so the short answer for your continued lack of supporting evidence is, No, I have no references to back up my position.

As for Fat, I believe the reference Sura 2:282 should suffice in how islam denotes that women are forgetful and less dependable then men. 2:228 this is a good one about how women are referred to as a degree below men.

http://quran.com/2

Thankfully, because 2:282 surrounds legal transactions (though definitely doesn't make note of only applying to legal transactions) Islam has clarified for us in Sahih Bukhari, Book 6 Number 301, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence."

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301

It just seems as though the main intention Muslim's have for women is summarized in 2:223 "Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves.". Your basically meant to be a baby factory.

Sure, maybe 2000 years ago Islam was giving women rights that they didn't have before that. Maybe a horse was the most efficient means of transportation. Maybe the earth appeared to be flat. Fortunately, some of us have been able to realize and embrace social and scientific developments that have occurred since then and are very happy doing so. If women are happy being sold on the idea that they are to be an offspring producing blow up doll, nothing more then a man's property, then fine, live your life like a tool.

whyte ........ be careful, bullets are not less harmful :P

Good there is no stoning in India. A lot of married women can be stoned because of me ;)

exiled

exceptions are everywhere around the globe, u must not forget that Pope Joan were stoned to death by romans.

I'd love you to post the proofs!!!

Anyway what is your belief is your belief and I would never critise your right to practise it. However stoning people to death is something else and should be not be condoned by any sensible human being.

Eco - Did you take your medicine? How many times do I have to remind you?

100th Post ;)

Let's agree to disagree..Take care now. Nighty night!

Then I have nothing to discuss with you. You are still stuck in medieval times for me if you think stoning should be used as punishment.

Can I answer that? If done in accordance to the Sunnah with a fair trial & absolutely no injustice yes I do! I do support it..Cos I'm a Muslim!This is our laws..set by our Lord. If that's barbaric & whatever else to you that's just fine by me. You have your opinion & I have mine. Yes I really do..have an opinion that is!

You miss a few hours in QL & you really miss a lot! So.... csymllr I'm "trained the same way a master trains their dogs to do as their told" huh? Is that the best you can say? Wooooooooohoooo! And if I was to give you evidence from the Quran & the hadhiths will you accept them?Will you accept from the books of the scholars of Islam like Bukhari & Muslim? And what makes you think I have not corrected that crappy site you posted? Am I supposed to post you their answers as well?

"In the very least you should be able to recognize given what your religion tells you, your reasoning skills are inadequate and obsolete when compared to that of a man's" FYI there are many many female scholars in Islam. I too do not flinch to correct any brother in Islam. Poor you for thinking otherwise! After all are you not a man too? Anyways there's nothing more to say to you..I have said all I can. Ultimately "Lakum deenukum waliya deen" in short to me is my religion (and beliefs) and to you is yours. Night!

Simple question, do you support stoning?

Simple yes or no will do.

you copy paste without knowledge from wrong site.

FU is quoting Bukhari is evil and in the same thread he is quoting him as good. I dont think FU and Mehnis will ever dare to discuss islam again with me. Poor Mehnis is pretending to be muslim who couldnt translate single verse.

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/243675?page=2

but other learned brothers

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/243675?page=2

has any ignorant over here read any islamic book? still they come and bark

have you bothered to search QL? its boring to repeat same thing again and again to same dumb ppl

what quranic evidence have you provided to prove you arent the ignorant one?

oh and speaking of not knowing what your talking about I believe quran.com is both a website and the scripture of islam...

those who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones (no pun intended).

knowledge of the subject is ignorance. This type of Ignorance suits only Indians.

perhaps he isnt into fiction?

available easily. Just for the sake of curiosity start reading it

Not a scholar huh? I never would have guessed... If the references that it uses are incorrect then please, use your knowledge of Islam, coupled with some proof to back it up to correct their errors. Your attempt to discredit the site's beliefs is silly and baseless at best. In the very least you should be able to recognize given what your religion tells you, your reasoning skills are inadequate and obsolete when compared to that of a man's. Clearly since there are men who have contibuted to the site you have no place trying to contest with their inherent superiority. Your inability to make any valid point is evident by the fact that the most substance from any of your responses is that sunnah dont think so. Never providing any evidence as to why your definition of zina versus mine is consistent with the stories of the Quran is proof of how little you must know about the book you have devoted your life to which heavily contributes to your absense of credibility and inability to make a valid point on the subject.

Though I believe kramer has found the root of the problem, you most likely have no opinion other then what your told is your opinion, trained the same way a master trains their dogs to do as their told.

Eco, while your on the phone with qtel you should also tell them to throw these on the 'banned for pointing out injustices perpetuated by my religion' list...

http://www.reference.com/browse/Arabic

http://www.stop-stoning.org/files/Criminalizing%20Sexuality%20-%20Zina%20Laws%20as%20Violence%20Against%20Women%20in%20Muslim%20Contexts%20(Mir%20Hoessini).pdf

...the proof is in the pudding

From what I read, that website is providing real life stories and all you had to say was it's a crappy website.

By the way did I state my religion anywhere, don't assume things ;)

Both eco & I who are practicing Muslims know this website to be full of nonsense. That's a fact but if you as a non Muslim wish to believe that site & not us that's your choice! Suit y'self.."Just trashing others is a sign of people with no opinion of their own" really..says who? Having an opinion means you can speak for or against anyone you wish based on how you feel and or based on evidences,right? Where did any of us "just thrash" anyone? Where I stand its you thrashing our laws & beliefs. Now that's your opinion..or not?

We just intend to forget the different cultures and traditions we come from, of course we can not for get all about religions.

Most Muslims would accept this kind of punishment, but also they forgot that so many are doing the adultery sin, sure no one will know, so no one will be punished, we do not even bother to explain it in the right way "on why is the punishment so hard, and why in public" but we stick to our rules, only with who does not have the power to cover up the sin, of course we are talking about corruption which is everywhere in the whole world.

Other religions would see that this is a very uncivilized way of punishing, sure they see too many corruptive people around (whom suppose to be our leaders), but they also intend to forget how harsh their punishments were, burning people just because they believe in some other way of praying (of course it is not their anymore) but they are doing it in a legal way now, and here I will not talk about religions, I would like to talk about nations.

if you do not follow the rules we will concur your country....but no I will not talk about that!!!

Just people we have to understand the way the rules are rolling if the rules are really being effective on all then OKAY, but if only the non well covered people, then NO H**L NO.

so for me it is a big no when there is corruption, otherwise start with the leaders (sinners) first then I will be the 1st volunteer.

and how many till now , during 1400 years are stoned with shria laws by Islamic Governments???

Follow the rules but you can speak out against them if they are barbaric and inhuman. Killing someone by stoning has to be right up there with burnt alive as the most horrific death a person can suffer.

gkramer

were u not the one who was educating me, to follow the rules and laws?

So you believe in cencorship then eco? How do you know what is written is incorrect?

FathimaH why should we believe you (an internet user) and not believe that website. Both are virtual entities, say what you feel. Just trashing others is a sign of people with no opinion of their own.

Thanks for giving the link. I am going to report Q-tel about this filthy site

I may not be a scholar but I can assure you thats one crappy website run by a bunch of seriously misguided folks. If you wanna learn about the true Islam & its rulings you gotta get it from those who follow the sunnah only. Don't believe just anything you get on the web..All that shines is not gold!

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=6157

This should be a good read...

Ohh...ok..So it means there was no clapping from one hand..Both seems to be at fault somewhere..

I read this in another site that the man in question is one of the two guys accused of murdering her husband. Apparently she confessed under duress to having had a sexual relationship with him which she now denies. This case seems far complicated than what it appears.Hope & pray the truth comes out!

so why should any one stone dogs dats cruel

Why the media isn't highlighting the MAN with whom this poor lady was caught for adultery????

To receive 99 lashes in public is more than enough for this poor woman to suffer physically, emotionally and psychologically. I think this is really unfair and one sided, uncivilized society---- stoning human to death as if they are just stoning a stray dog!!!

Who said a woman who is raped is punished? Are you reading what I posted? I said the rapist is punished..not the woman who is raped. She is NOT punished cos of cos it ain't her fault. But I am aware that there are sickos who somehow prove the woman was at fault & punish her..this again is not a part of the shari'a..so don't be fooled in to thinking this to be Islam. Your right I cannot speak for any non Muslims but I can assure you a true Muslim is one who agrees that the laws of Allah, all of them, are just & sound as it is & don't need changing. Regardless of whether they follow them or not. For ultimately nobody is infallible. We all fall in to sins for which we must repent.

Punishing a woman for adultery when she is raped is an ancient and ignorant way to view the situation. Zina is an umbrella statement that governs all extramarital affairs, thats the issue I'm talking about as being outdated.

In my opinion a woman who is raped is not at fault.

I'm not worried about it and regardless I think getting involved with someone who is in a relationship is dispicable. I know this must be a foreign concept for you, but people can establish their own personal set of guidelines without the help of a rule book that others made up thousands of years ago. My concern was to help the helpless, but if thinking for oneself is not up your alley then fall back on ignorance being bliss.

Also, I dont see how you can speak for all non-Muslims or Muslims. Different people take differnt positions on issues, however sometimes social pressure persuades them to blindly follow guidelines they don't necessarily agree with (completely or partially). Sound familiar?

Says who?? Didn't I specify before that the punishment for rape is death for the rapist where else adultery both parties are punished provided its proven either by four witnesses or by self confession? Now how can you say "the belief system isn't up to date enough to distinguish rape from (civilized) adultery" Look bottom line as a non Muslim you will never agree that adultery is such a serious sin & that's the way it is. We, Muslims think differently. And as my friend Eco pointed out this shari'a law does not apply to non Muslims.. Ya'ni stoning to death for the crime of adultery.You will either be jailed or deported as per the courts ruling.. So don't worry bout it=D

Dude, it did appear that way. Seeing as how the belief system isn't up to date enough to distinguish rape from (civilized) adultery.

i will look for that movie...

Amusing to see the so called read people justify this at this century.

Heard this news in CNN.. The son even ask for a letter from his mother and he claimed his mother innocent.. :(

This is really insane.. I cannot express my anger and sorrow over this issue.. Really feel deep sorrow.. Those who will throw stone on her, may the heaven save their souls..

we have to face strict laws when we step out of the boundary...

you can do waterver you want and get deported simple as that

I am happy to live in Qatar and although I don't agree with jail time for illicit relations (deportation would be better for expats) I am glad that they do not stone anyone to death. They know its barbaric and are more civilised than that.

will anyone be so stupid to throw stones at her in this time and age? Is it a fun or what? just ridiculous.

Dude did it appear to you that I thought the Quran was outdated? OMGod...I most certainly don't!What sucks is how its misinterpreted,twisted & used by corrupt individuals for their own purposes. But as I said before its the corrupt rascals to be blamed..they are the ones who need to be changed or banished from their positions of power. not the Quran,the sunnah or the Sharia..period!

I believe your belief system designates zina as an act of extramarital relations. If you want to accommodate a distinction between consentual and non-consentual extramarital relations, commission the husband to try and change the Qu'ran, after all it would appear we both agree it's a bit outdated.

I read that...tis very strange indeed. Seems like there is more to the story. "Judge's knowledge-a loophole that allows for subjective judicial rulings where no conclusive evidence is present." Oh wow! There's some real weird laws in that parts. call it what they may but its certainly not the Shari'a based on the Prophetic sunnah!

Same old story...same old opinions from the same tireless QLers...its just getting so boring.

Sakineh already endured a sentence of 99 lashes, but her case was re-opened when a court in Tabriz suspected her of murdering her husband. She was acquitted, but the adultery charge was reviewed and a death penalty handed down on the basis of "judge's knowledge" - a loophole that allows for subjective judicial rulings where no conclusive evidence is present.

That's how it is..except of course for those who want the said punishment for themselves(self confession) as they believe thats the only way they are sure to receive God's forgiveness. But mind you Allah may very well forgive you even if you are to hide your sin & repent. But its about the level of ones fear of their Lord.

It's not strict at all FathimaH, I can see so many loopholes in it that in a fair trial nobody should ever get convicted of adultery.

No its not the same..Oh dear where is this thread heading? Do we really need to discuss the difference between consensual sex & non consensual sex aka rape. In rape the rapist is put to death regardless of whether he's married or not. The victim is compensated. Got it?

Wouldnt rape technically be a form of adultery? That is as long as one of the parties in the rape was married.

So you understand how hard it is to prove adultery unless like Brit put it its proven by self confession in which case the accused actually knows fully well how he/she will be punished. Why its so strict is to avoid corruption & false convictions. And mind you this is only in case of adultery not murder, manslaughter etc so if you happen to be an eyewitness in any other case feel free to come forward =D

No problem.. You just didn't understand my humour :O)

Rape is different from adultery but the punishment is death for the rapist.

Britexpat, I want to apologise for losing a bit of temper yesterday, ok... Usually it does'nt happen... Sorry, though I meant every word I said :-)

It's pretty stupid law if someone can get away with it by committing a crime in front of 3 people. Those 3 will be punished instead??

So unless I commit adultery in the middle of the street in broad daylight, I can get away with it?

Eye-witnesses must be so scared to come forward, what if nobody else testifies, I will end up getting punished.

What about rape do you need four witnesses?

I agree with you 100%. This was how it was done at the time of the Prophet Peace be upon him & his companions. In fact there was an incident where 3 men accused another of adultery claiming they saw the act but because they didn't have a 4th witness they the accusers were punished instead. Such is the shariah when practiced the right way according to the sunnah. But I repeat how far is Iran from the sunnah?very very far. Do you know how many sunnis are killed & oppressed merely for following the sunnah? But God is Just & may the lady in question get her justice..Aameen!

csymllr, yes, one can.

Under Islamic Law, adultery is nigh on impossible to prove - unless there is a confession from the accused - and hence the sentence of stoning should hardly ever be given.

This is a clear misuse and corruption of the laws and she MUST be released.

My thoughts exactly! I don't know bout anyone else but I'm truly truly happy as a woman that God has permitted for me just one spouse. I mean having a stud on the side is different from being married & we all know that. In Islam having sexual relationships outside of marriage is equally illegal for both men & women!

Undoubtedly it takes two hands to clap & in any just ruling on adultery cases the man should be punished as well. However in this case it is clear there has been no fair trial..period. But again this is Iran..what do you expect?

I dont know how she took 99 lashes before calling it quits, that lady must have a back cast from iron.

Like I said before, why aren't the men getting stoned. Did she commit adultery by masturbating??

She did it with a man and both should be punished. How can one party be sentenced to death by stoning and the other getting away completely. It is incredible and even more incredible to see some people calling it fair. Nothing about it is fair.

You can believe that the punishment doesnt fit the crime. While still believing the crime is a breach of a religious code. You could say that muslim laws make sense, but the harshness of punishment attached to said laws is to severe to correct the wrongdoing for the breach of those laws.

Whatever the laws, she has clearly said that her confession was coerced and given under duress. This should be enough to at the very least have the case reheard.

...isnt there a word to describe the relationship when a man pays for the sexual company of a woman. I know that when theres multiple women its a party, but I cant remember the singular...

will you check the dictionary and give me feedback

How is it not unfair (to clarify, I said unequal)?

I didnt say that paying for multiple women is more difficult then paying for one woman, I said that allowing one sex to have multiple spouses while forcing the other sex to only have one spouse or share one spouse with others is 'inequality'. Men are treated equally when compared to other men, and women when compared to other women, but when you compare treatment of men and women, the treatment is not the same (not the same treatment = not equal...). Equal would be if any woman was EQUALLY entitled to marry as many men as she could financially support, or if she chose, to only marry and support one man.

I'm no god, but as I see it if you wanted to make things equal for everyone, you just give everyone the same, privelages and responsibilities. You dont try to compare apples to oranges and make some things harder for some and easier for others. Its not a difficult concept, if I can figure it out and 'He' can't then maybe 'He' then maybe 'He' isnt all that wise.

Ok well I agree to disagree then =D

It must be fun for the stone throwers. They can kill without being held responsible.

I guess this is proof god does not exist. If god is merciful he would not advocate stoning to death as a punishment.

As for the burying up to the chest & waist bit there are reasons for this. Its deffo different but not unfair.. Yes a man can marry up to four wives provided he treats them all equally which trust me is very very hard for which reasons many men choose to be with just one wife for the fear of falling in to great sin by not treating them alike.

There are many points in the sharia where it may appear like the males are getting a raw deal compared to women & vice versa but the fact is we as Muslims accept the laws of our Lord for we believe He wishes only good for us by them all & He is most Just & most Wise...

I can see how you would find having the same rules for men and women as well as the same punishment for the same crime to be equal. However I believe that women are burried to their chest while men to their waist. Thats unequal treatment.

Another great example of inequality would be establishing a rule where men are permitted to marry as many women as they can financially support, while only allowing women to marry one man.

Finally, using a legal system where one male testimony is equivelent to two female testimonies is also not equal. You can agree with the laws, but it is incorrect and illogical to classify them as equal.

Now whattya gonna do about it?

The stoning to death supports are in town! Welcome to the 8th century!

In any case the sharia laws are all just..period. Provided there is no corruption of course. As for such times then its the corrupt society to be blamed not the sharia it self. gtim...as a Muslim I do think its fine for a man to have more than 1 WIFE..not a mistress or even a flirtation but a legally wedded 2nd wife (or 3rd or 4th)And yes we women are only permitted 1 husband..and Thank God for that!If a man was to commit adultery then he's punishment should be the same as a woman who commits adultery. That's equality!

God have mercy...

this is Sharia laws....

At least they use holy stones and she will be cleansed of her sins...

What makes me wonder is that why is it that if a married woman have another man in life the law considered it a very big sin? whereas men can have two or more wives and yet they were not condemn? Where is the equality of human rights there?

drmana, the problem is, in this particular case the woman is stoned BECAUSE of religious law.

If you condemn stoning in general, you will have to condemn the law prescribing it. And that law would be Shari'a law.

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1162577

Eco, people killing those children are as wrong as the people ordering stoning of this woman. What is your point? We are condemning the act here not any sect or religion.

You might like to go through linked sites to have better understanding of the issue:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_adul2.htm

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503548032

There is so much of information avaiable on net and might be of interest before we comment. This will enlighten us and will give better understanding to comment with knowledge instead of just start bashing on religion/country.

next question pls

Where are the Human Right Groups in the world???? To whom against are they?Only against poor countries?? This is realy dissapointed.

the question is plain and simple...Are we still humans?

yes i am still a woman.

daily innocents are dying with bullets, so does she with stones.

i can't see a difference btw the two faces.

capital punishment is there in many countries.

Tribal customs are also there in lots of countries.

Wait till someone will come and justify that its totally humane.....insane :-(

IRAN has even hanged some women in full public view few years back..

I don't know how many cases of stoning have actually been carried out to date.. I saw the movie Stoning of Soraya M, which we know is based on true story and the way the stoning was portrayed was really horrible, I was in tears while watching it.. :(

We can expect everything from IRAN..Its not new..

Horrible! But the question should be "Are they still humans?"

it's horrible...

some humans have treated some are animals.

When this was posted before, people were so sure that she would appeal and the sentence reduced :-((