Bikinis, culture and why people are leaving!!
I haven't posted for a long time, but felt compelled to do so by recent events at the Diplomatic Club. For those of you who are not members as of the 1st March women are no longer allowed to wear bikinis in the pool, spa or beach.
For those of us who joined the club sometime ago expressly to have somewhere to relax away from the restrictions of society (I am happy to follow local conventions and wear an abaya to work) it seems that we are being cheated out of our money. It appears that in Qatar paying money for one thing (a place to relax in a free way) may mean mean actually paying for something entirely different once they actually have your cash. It is clearly not acceptable.
Yet this, I agree, is a small thing. As a Western woman who has formerly championed the right of Muslim women in the UK and US to wear Hijab I am appalled by the complete double standards applied to tolerance and respect in this country. If the West refuses any such demands we are accused of narrow intolerance and yet here we are constantly urged to abide by local customs.
Most importantly, it seems that most of the tenets of our common religious beliefs (Islam/Christian) should be based on respect for human beings and a belief in their right to a decent life. Yet while a 'senior person' in a silly club thinks it is important enough to prevent me from wearing a bikini the same (or similar well appointed person or group of people) do little to nothing about the appalling living conditions of people of other nationalities who live and work here. One justification - 'they earn more than they would in their own country' - absolutely sickens me. If two people do the same job they should be paid the same money. This is a simple, basic, moral human right. It should apply regardless of sex or nationality. It seems to me a much greater and more important issue to worry about than whether or not Western women wear bikinis in a Private Club. I have met good people here, but I will hope not to return when I leave. Recently a Qatari women complained to me about high labour costs in Canada and how 'it deprived her of the right to work' because she could not afford constant care for her children. Yet this same person complains that she has to fly maids home every two years, in some cases to see children they have been separated for over the same period. Implicit in her conversation was the idea that as an educated and undoubtedly talented Qatari woman she was worth no end of manual labour from certain countries. And this in spite of the fact that many of the women may themselves be as qualified as she is. If you're curious, try it. Speak to women in shops, your manicurist, your driver, your hairdresser, your nannny. What did she/he do in India/the Philippines/Sri Lanka? Maybe, what's his/her degree in? Then think about what they earn. There but for the grace of your God...
One nationality is NEVER superior to another. People are different. Sure, education, good luck, may mean you are in a better position than your neighbour, but it does not give you the right to expect or even believe they should sacrifice any of their time on earth for yours. Employ people by all means, but pay them a living wage, give them a decent place to live, a room of their own, water to wash and drink, air conditioning, sick pay and so on and watch your society really develop. True growth means a lot more than throwing buildings up as fast as you can and trying to look as devout as possible to anyone who is watching.
In conclusion and to circumvent any remarks of 'if you don't like it then leave'. I am. As soon as my contract is over. Having said that we all live in this world. If I can make it any better for anyone I should like to try and I will.
well said, you hit the bottom. I'm with you all the way.
having grown up in dubai i can say that the video is an understatement. Suicides committed by workers werent even mentioned. the average pay is 300aed not 600aed!! I have even read about 20 ppl in one room. frankly dubai is hell on earth for these labourers.
the workers in qatar are also ill treated. imagine working in the scorching heat 12 hours a day !!
Yes, I've been in Doha since September last year. So other than your 'swimsuit' issue, how are you doing? You can contact me through my profile here on QL and we could touch base.
Take care
Moonbeam
Dear Moonbeam
Yes, of course, I remember. We were very grateful. Thank you for the news clip, it was very useful. Are you actually here in Doha now? I will try to send an e-mail to you from my regular address, I just hope I've remembered yours!
L
its a lousy rule that women cant walk around naked in the shower room.well some women may feel offended but.....
one piece swimsuit and the topless option.... LOL.
happy heart
drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home
Sharq village is awesome! If I could afford it I would for sure get a membership there.
I had not considered the other topless option. Now that WOULD be interesting!
Very well said. I remember some time back, (when I was still in Moscow) helping you by giving you the cost of living summary..... remember me? :) I think your post is truly eye opening for people that have not experienced this part of the world before.
To add to what you said, I thought you might like to see this video:
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1102063598
which highlights what is happening in Dubai.
I don't usually look at US broadcasts as I find them somewhat biased, however, having lived in Dubai myself I can vouch that this happens there, and here for that matter.
Take care.
It's located between Oasis hotel & Doha club. I was given a tour on the spa facility (like no other in doha). Although it resembles Mina al-salam in Dubai, the interior is more authentic. I loved the shesha terrace (superb view)
My question is, where exactly is it located, it looks like it's somewhere on the corniche by the view...
has anyone tried it yet?
when there is six senses spa at Ritz Carlton Sharq village.
http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/Properties/SharqVillage/Default.htm
The spa facilities are fabulous. Membership is 18,000 QR/year.
I know Gypsy, that's exactly the first thing that some of us immediately thought :D
Oh and BTW women are not allowed to walk around naked in the shower room either, new role as of Jan 2007!
OOO When I first heard the rule for a second that's what I thought they meant. Cause someone said they were only allowing one piece bikinis LOL.
Dweller LOL … you know they were possibly expecting that at the diplomatic club and that's why they post a picture to show EXACTLY what they mean by "one-piece swimsuit"!! Of course they probably did that also to avoid having ladies, misled by the "one-piece" thing, showing up topless …
As I said on the other post, do what the Braziians did at the Ramada. Sew a piece of thread between the top and bottom parts of a bikini. You then have a one piece swimsuit.
We had a guy at the Falcon club who objected to men walking round naked in the shower rooms.
a true depiction of today. its nice to see many see this way too.
happy heart
drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home
Money rules my dear.. Whether u r educated or not.. Never be subservient to the Indians & Chinese. They will race ahead of a pack of faithless fools. ( particularly the west)
Yes, these workers need food etc, but these 'sponsors' will get away with these fraudulent activities time and time again unless they are stopped. And by continually ignoring these wrongs and providing support to their victims they are free to continue ripping people off.
The government needs to show some responsibility (how much have they spent supporting Palestine etc?) and deal with what their nationals are doing, bringing shame upon this country.
and totally correct it sickenes me the inequalites in the world - not just in Qatar- this happens the world over!!! all countries discriminate against skin colour, passport sex religion. but what can we do about it while we are out there to make things better for people who have to deal with being seen as a " lower caste" on a daily basis?
All i try and do is be super polite to everyone i deal with, i tip as often and whenever i can - the guys that pack the bags, the guys that petrol in our car, our cleaner gets paid heaps more than the agreed rate all the time! All we can do is try and be nice and polite to each other and put ourselves in each others position and try and be kind. I wish they could/would set up amnesty international out here or human rights watch that would help, at least with QL we can spread the world of the bad things which are happening out here and maybe all get together to help.
Sorry but it feels to me like your post is downplaying Lachalla's one just to the bikini issue … I read much more than that.
Hey there,
I totally sympathise with u , and i understand completely what u mean by double standards..
I find it very sickening as well..
You made a gr8 point about no nationality being superior to the other ( and therfore all claims of cultural/religious/moral superiority are void and null as well)...
I would like to draw your attention however that such customes are not a reflection of Islam ( as a religion ) per say, but are a reflection of the local customes which are throughout the arab/muslim world conservative...
Having said that, conservatisim is not limited to the arab/muslim world, most of asia for example is as conservative as the arab/muslim world while being non muslims
The freedom to wear a bikini in privacy is nothing i object to personally, and i m sure there are other places in Qatar where u can wear it other than the diplomatic club... if that is the real issue..
i have a feeling however that this was sort of the last straw for u in a series of other things ...which wouldnt surprise me...
There is a lot to get used to when in a country like qatar ( let alone saudi arabia ):)
Judging by western standards, is a bit unfair in my view point..
There is no denying that some of the conditions here are very questionalble, and seriouslly flawed,but do try and rember that this country is less than 50 years old (established in 1974)
With the oil boom and everything, they have a need to find their spot under the light, they want to be known in the world, and they wont to develop...much like a teenager if u will...
Teenagers have lots of enthusiasm, lots of energy, lots of drive, but a non complete sense of morality and their ability to distinguish right from wrong is still not fully developed...
i mean not to sound condecending either, Qatari people ( as well as the peoples of the arabian gulf in general) are very wise and deep in many areas in life, more so than other peoples of the world, by virtue of their unique life experience and living in the desert and all...
All i m saying is, when a country and nation is trying 2 build itself from zero , to reach what we now see in qatar withing less than 50 years, its only normal to see a lot of contradictions, a lot of double standards, and a lot of wrong things, it is merely the flip side of the coin of all the development and improvment happening...
the real shame is these double standards being present in countries like urs and mine ( egypt) , with loads of history to draw from...
i will be the 1st to admit that in terms of empolyment rights and legal rights etc..the west has developed so much so that there is little discrimination..
I do believe however that the west ( as a culture) is to date still apprehensive, weary, judgmental, intolerant , unrespectfull even of the " other " cultures, especially the arab/muslim one, and that reflects in the way westerners ( not all but most), view their experiences in arab/muslim countries or with arab/muslim people..
I could be totally wrong in believing that, but thats how i see it...
any how,
i hope u r feeling better now, and i m sorry u feel robbed out of ur money ( its a damn shame)
if i were u , i d ask the club to gimme back the rest of my money for the time left in ur subscription with them
after all, they did change the conditions of memebership , and thats a breach of contract anywhere in the world...
best of luck and thank u for ur post, it was very passionate and heart felt
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Nothing is big enough or powerful enough to stop a determined and motivated opposition forever, no matter how small the opposition may seem.
I don't think I have to provide examples of that theory.
Gypsy, we can only rape the planet for so long....it WILL come to an end, be sure of that
The way things are going, i'd be surprised if the human race lasted another 300 years to be honest
It won't happen as long as there is so much money in oil and gas. The Oil and Gas lobby and OPEC won't let it.
Me and my husband always discuss it what happen with Qatar if people find a way to substitute gas/oil with water???
One thing for sure ... my husband would be jobless :-(
In 300 years the human race's dependence on fossil fuels will be no more than an embarrassing footnote. The current enormous need for oil and gas and the subsequent value those things will be taught in history classes as a period of time where we came close to wiping each other out for what will then seem like a pretty dumb reason.
300 years ago men would challenge other men to duels when they felt that they had been insulted. At the time it was a perfectly acceptable way to stand up for yourself. Now it seems violent and primitive.
Nothing is ever going to happen that hasn't already happened on some scale, to some extent.
Regarding the situation in the industrial area ... some expatwives in Doha already doing their bits to helped out these guys. One of them is Nathalie, she collecting a donation (anything from food, clothing, crockery etc etc etc) in her house, then she delivered to Kunja's House in regular basis (normally she going there as soon as her car full). Kunja's house somewhere around the zoo area ... the guys there are mostly nepalese workers who being abandoned by their sponsors. When i went there with them ... one of them broke down cried in tears. He said he haven't have any contact with his family for more than 1 years. His company bankrupt and the local sponsor disappear with his passport and he never been paid. Back home he owe so much money to loan shark to land him a job in the middle east. MOst of these guys have very similar stories. They can't go home because they have no passport, if they report themself to the authority they will be detain as an illegal immigrant. The embassy can't help everyone because there are thousands of these type of cases around. And take years to sort thenm out one by one.
If you are interested to do your bit pls rang Nanci in 5137904, or email nathalie in [email protected]
Maybe i fyou read the paper few days ago ... Spanish Speaking Ladies Group have adopted this Kunja's House. Not sure what they are doing by 'adopted', but surely the more help these people getting the better it will be.
Neo-Slavery. Human Rights abuses. Poverty and Squallar.
ivan, whats happening in the industrial area?
I am afraid the gas in Qatar will last for another 300 years minimum.
Yep, thought my wife was 'upset'. Looks like we will be leaving.
Perhaps the last thing I can do is organise trips to the Industrial Area with my cameras and start to highlight the situation happening there, rather than just let it continue. Never upset a writer - she'll be back, watch this space.
Thanks everyone. I feel slightly less aggrieved knowing that there are other people who feel similarly sickened by the inequalities here.
Good One lachalla
It is the tyranny of money. In 50 years time it will be different. The oil will be gone and we will all be subservient to the Indians and Chinese. Poetic justice!
Always in the history of mankind, too much money brings on totally unjustified feelings of superiority by the rich and the powerful. I cannot see this situation in Qatar changing for a long time unfortunately.
It is the tyranny of money. In 50 years time it will be different. The oil will be gone and we will all be subservient to the Indians and Chinese. Poetic justice!
Always in the history of mankind, too much money brings on totally unjustified feelings of superiority by the rich and the powerful. I cannot see this situation in Qatar changing for a long time unfortunately.
On Target !!! Good One
Bang on! Great post.
Its sick to see discrimnation on basis of nationality.High rise buildings ,super facities does'nt nesscarily mean development !!!!!!!!
Thanks for this post!
Profound words....I salute you!