Canadians argue for polar bear hunt
By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer Mon Jun 23, 8:38 PM ET
WASHINGTON - Officials from northern Canada were in Washington on Monday to make an unpopular argument: Let U.S. hunters continue to kill polar bears for sport.
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The politicians from Canada's Northwest Territory asked Interior Department officials to allow U.S. sportsmen to still bring back polar bear hides after their hunts in Canada's Arctic region, despite the increased protection now afforded the bear under the Endangered Species Act.
The United States bans sport hunting of polar bears, but Canada does not, although it restricts the hunting season to two months and limits the number of kills.
The recent decision to declare the polar bear threatened under the Endangered Species Act also means U.S. sportsmen may no longer bring home trophy skins — which is what hunting's high-rollers actually prize.
This "will effectively wipe out our sports hunting industry," Bob McLeod, the Northwest Territory's minister for energy, industry and tourism, said Monday in an interview. He said it will wipe out most of the income for people living in a handful of villages along the province's Arctic coast.
He said hunters, mostly from the United States, spend an estimated $1.6 million annually during the polar bear hunts, much of it going into the economies of the isolated villages where the hunts are organized and concentrated.
McLeod said people who live in the far north know about global warming and have seen the permafrost melting, the icepack shrinking and seasons changing. "We are experiencing the effects of climate change," said McLeod.
But while the polar bear may have become a symbol of global warming, McLeod insists continued hunting and protecting the species can go hand in hand. The hunts are closely controlled, with 40 permits — each for one bear — issued each season.
"The bottom line is that people rely on this. This is income for the whole year," said Jackie Jacobson, who represents the far northern area in the provincial legislature.
There are about 86 hunting guides and helpers directly involved in the polar bear hunts, he said. Villagers' livelihoods are tied to the annual trek of wealthy U.S. sportsmen seeking a bear skin trophy. Because there are few jobs in the far north, hunting season affects 3,500 people — including children — who live there, Jacobson said.
McLeod, Jacobson and several other Northwest Territory officials met with Ken Stansell, deputy director of the Interior Department's Fish and Wildlife Service, and have scheduled meetings with a number of people in Congress later this week. Fish and Wildlife officials did not immediately return calls seeking comment.
Along with the polar bear hunting issue, McLeod is also talking up a planned natural gas pipeline that would bring Canadian Arctic gas from the far north to the United States.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080624/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/polar_bears_2
Canucks ;), just like we're Yankees, Brits are Limeys, New Zealanders are Kiwis and Australians are Aussies.
government is really serious about conservation , why not just compensate the indeginous people for the bears they would have been likely to kill.
As an aside, foreign hunters areactually queing up for the chance to hunt bears and are willing to pay big bucks.
Why not just call them Canadian - eh ?
britexpat - thanks for the data, the more you have the better to see the 'big picture'.
gypsy - I hear you on the 'hunt' part. I believe, if you kill it (intentionally that is), you eat it. But there are plenty of wide open spaces in America, e.g. Alaska, were the argument can be made for hunting for food. I also agree with you about the Indian part, just called them by their tribal name and give them their due respect and move on and if you refer to them all in general just call them indigenous tribes.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
I demand that the Canadian government supply all Polar bears with portable outborad motors so that they can control the flow of the ice burg..
next thing you know, the bloody thing will turn up on English shores asking for Assylum!
A) All Polar bears are left handed
B) If you eat Polar bear liver, the concentration of Vitamin A will kill you.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
LOL, well I think it would have to be an awfully stupid bear to get stuck floating out to sea on an ice burg, but ya, it happens. :P
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just walk across the ice to the next feeding/breeding area, not whistle "Dixie" as they meandered up the coast.....
Maybe i should have done Polar bear studies at school instead of goofing around !
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
lol of course they do! they live on ice flows!
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Its just that i have an image of a Polar bear family watching tv as they drift past the coastline, watched by locals....
(Blimey i need a beer !)
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
If you're from Europe or even the States it's kind of hard to imagine communities still relying on hunting to survive, to many it just seems bloody and foolish, but for Canada it's a livelyhood for a lot of people.
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from an Article in a UK paper..
The Bloody Business of Trophy Hunters..
.... Polar bear trophies are also in demand from collectors. Rugs can sell for $10,000 (£5,000) apiece, with illegal kills in Russia believed to be the main source. But skins are available in Canada, too.
An IoS reporter was offered one by www.Bear-SkinWorld.com. "We have one polar bear rug which has just been completed from our production line. We have not yet posted this polar bear on our web site. He measures 7ft 6ins from nose to tail. Price is $12,000 (£6,000), plus shipping."
Canadians say polar bear hunting is properly managed to ensure the viability of bear populations, and Inuit representatives say that the income from sports hunting is vital for the survival of their communities.
If you want to call them Red Canadians Britexpat, that's fine, it's the Indian thing that's the big problem as they aren't from India. Like I said, it's like going to Britain and calling everyone Japanese.
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It is, but hunting (with the exception of a few of these Northern Tribes) isn't there lively hood. In the case of polar bear hunting, I believe it should be allowed but heavily controlled, because for the Inuit tribes it is part of thier livelyhood. The Inuit tend to be quite good at conservation anyway. It's the Southern Tribes that are the problem. Where I'm from they sit on their porches and shoot at deer, moose or bear that walk onto their property and moose and bear are endangered. There's no reason for it 9 times out of 10 they don't use the meat. It's just shooting because they can.
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As harry said earlier.. unemployment is very high, The suicide rate is climbing, from what I've read, most of the "men' are unemployable..
Now you take the livelyhood away.. so what's the answer..?
How about "slightly tanned indians" :)
I think they shouldn't, Yes it was originally there land, and we're doing everything we can to make up for it, but letting them hunt an animal to extinction shouldn't be part of the deal.
And stop calling them Red Indians, it has nothing to do with PC it's just plain ignorance.
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"we gave them these rights and they are abusing them."... WE ? Its their land to begin with isn't it?
like the Aborigines in Australasia, Red indians in USA, we believe that we are doing it for their benefit - It actually eases our concience..
Now , wheer were we ? oh yes! Should they be allowed to hunt polar bears ?
I think they should.
Same in Oz as well there are only a few traditional Aborigine tribes that still live the traditional ways, these are the ones I feel sorry for. Ishouldn't say sorry but the ones that i have an empathy for oh bugger wrong word again any way you no what i mean.
There are a few Inuit tribes in the Northern part of Baffin Island still hunt more or less traditionally and use all of the animal...but that's about it.
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Didn't know that, guess as Flanostu pointed out, No more Nat Geo for me as well.
I wish that was the case MisCat, but no, most Natives now hunt only for sport and they do not use traditional methods anymore. It's a huge problem, because we gave them these rights and they are abusing them.
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yeah funny that the brithish monchy inly changed thier last name to w"windsor" just as WW@ broke out.
back to the topic though I think what some people are forgetting is that the inuits only hunt and kill what they need and take no more and most still use traditional methods of hunting for this (as in no semi automatic weapons)
Killing for sport however is a different matter altogether as most of these guys tend to be on the heavy handed side when it comes to there choice of weapons, most will use at least a semi automatic weapon and some I've seen will go the whole hog and use full automatic weapons this is were it becomes just slaughter. Most don't care about what happens to the animal after it is killed there just out for bragging rights.
Oh blah, then it's like calling the Brit's Japanese.
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And Britain has German influences from wayyyyyyy back.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
To me calling Native Canadians Indians is like going to Britain and calling everyone German, it's just stupid.
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Thankyou.. It is these labels that sometimes cause the problems. To me, if you get a passport of a country, then you are the from there there. Full stop.
Now people will start arguing about duel nationalities etc .. Let's say you country of choice.
As far as hunting polar bears is concerned, I think that you have to find a compromise.
The unemployment amongst these tribes is very high compared to the rest of the country and they need this to survive. Most do not have any other skills and I read somewhere, that the suicide rate amongst the First nation tribes is at alarming rates.
I like American, full stop. We are all one nationality (if you are legal) of many ethnicities, full stop. I see no hyphen for European-American, Middle East-American (which continent are they on, Europe or Asia, I'm guessing Asia), Australian-American or Antarctic-American (a whole continent with no natives) and I don't see any need for any hyphenation, full stop.
I think the first nation does not include inuit..
Blame Columbus, not me! I have great aversion to the PC brigade.. Call the Comanche, Navaho, Iraquah, whatever, but native americans ? Please....
It like African Americans, Asian Americans etc etc.. They are all Americ ans . Full stop.
The problem starts when you begin categorizing..
I always thought that Canadian aboriginals were called "First Nation" tribes and what Gypsy refers to as Native American is referred to as "American Indian."
Also, here's more information from the US side of the endangered species listing:
http://www.adn.com/polarbears/story/413710.html
Talk about climate shock! Have you been back in winter since living here. Cucuccucold ;)
Thanks for the explanation. Got it.
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Sounds like a fair trade to me :P
Well that's why we need to kill polar bears! :P
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Nova Scotia. We have one casino in the province, that's it.
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Yeah I'm in the whole for uni to and I'm not even using my degree for $$ , aaaggggh!
I don't know if it would work as well in Canada, California has the population of your entire country.
Ya my high school was free. I'm 50 grand in debt for uni though. :P
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Ya Canadian natives aren't allowed to open casinos, they're heavily regulated, especially in my province which is pretty economically depressed.
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Sounds like you weren't that deprived to me, judging by the education you got in high school, for free?
Coming from So Cal, there are a lot of 'rezs' and we have the most 'Indian gaming' casinos in the US. I see it as a good thing as the smart tribes are taking the profits and diversifying their portfolios and improving the lot of many. Some of these casinos have hotels, fire departments, golf courses, etc (and they generally pay better than comparable jobs on the local economy - you don't have to be a native to work there-, not to mention scholarships for their fellow tribesmen and money donated to different charities).
The big fight now is between the tribes over who gets the rights to run these casinos, how many, how big, where, etc.
Tell me about it, if I'd just moved 20 minutes away I could have my status card and have to pay no taxes, gotten free uni, any sweet government job I want. Sigh.
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something funny - well not PC but... At school we had to fill out a questionare before our mid state highschool exams - one question was "Are you of Aboriginal or Torris Strait Islander decent?".
One guy who was half Italian/Irish ticked yes(because the mark is automatically scaled up). When questioned about it he said he was 1/16th Aboriginal...(work that out) Suffice to say his mark was scaled up.
Horrible places. :( Funnily enough I grew up in an area that had 3 around me, though I didn't live on one myself.
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I am sure that life on the 'Rez' anywhere is not preferable as they tend to be desolate places.
Better trace it back to 'The Great White North', you'll stand a better chance a getting a check, unless your clan runs a successful casino in the States ;)
There's not been that much mixing, most natives were seperated from the rest of the people. As for fractions, I believe I'm the least you can go. Also there is the requirement that you have to live on a reserve, which is by no means enticing, no income tax or not.
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Still - where do the fractions stop? Is there a limit on how far removed you can be? How can you prove your native staus? I take it many natives were at some point displaced and therefore their link to a reserve may have been broken? I have these questions because similar issues arise in Australia. However I must say it sounds like native Americans have a much much better deal - no income tax??? Wow forget Qatar then! I'm checking my family history again!
Now that's a box I wanna see when I am asked my race/ethnicity :P ;)
I am a 'native American'. I was born in America.
Well because nobody is actually those colours, we're all varying shades of brown.
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I am not sure how calling someone by the color of their skin is akin to racism (white, black, yellow, red, brown).
Southland you Americans can call them whatever you want, in Canada it's native. :P I'm not Red or Indian.
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Well if it equates to niger no, I wouldn't say it. However what does puzzle me somewhat is why rappers can get away with saying it all the time. I'm not saying that therefore I should be able to say it because I find it a derogatory word, just - isn't this double standards?
Ok - sorry - just realised this is a h-jack lol - I'm off now:)
Atlanta Braves, Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians, San Diego State Aztecs. . .
Zenon, you get a card. There's two types, Native and Metis (mix of Native and French decent). You have to have either been born or lived on a reserve at some point and be able to prove your decent. I'm one quarter (maternal grandmother was Native) if I chose to live on a reserve for 2 years I would be eligble for my card and all the fantastic benefits that come with it (no income tax, free university, etc).
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Polar bears have it rough...if the trophy hunters dont get them, the melting ice caps or toxic pollutants from the oil and gas development in the North will.
very passionate about indiginous affairs:) Don't think I have met one Canadian who isn't a strong advocate for indiginous rights, but then again I may lead a sheltered life;)
It's not PC, you wouldn't call a black person the n word would you?
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I just love it when Canadians get talking about wild life - so passionate ;) You'd be buggered if you'd find me feezing the family jewels out there shivering with a pair of binoculars lol!
Ok Gypsy one serious technical question - how does this work in practice? I mean how do you distinguish between native and non native? I mean race as a concept is sort of flawed - what about peope of mixed discent? Do you get a special ticket? Just thinking it may prove difficult in practice to enforce - who determines your "nativness" or otherwise?
Both sides have a case.. However, Dr Peter Ewins, director of species conservation at World Wildlife Fund Canada, says:
"Things are trending very poorly right now for a number of these polar bear populations," he told Reuters, saying data showed five of the 13 Canadian populations were either seeing declines or no increases in numbers.
From July 1, 2006, to June 30, 2007, a total of 498 bears were killed in Nunavut. Sports hunters -- who can pay C$30,000 ($30,600) or more to kill a bear -- shot 120 animals.
PS: Sorry .. I don't like this PC stuff.. Red Indians they are.. I grew up with John Wayne playing a Comanche Chief..
Southland, to be honest this is the first time I've even heard they were giving these permits out, so I can't even begin to imagine.
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$1.6 million per year, divided by 40 skins is $40,000 per pelt, I wonder what the cost of just the permit is and how hard it is go get one. What do they do with the meat?
Britexpat can you PLLLEAAASEEE not call them 'Red Indians' it's very racist. They are Native Americans/Canadians or aboriginals.
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By 'we' I was referring to non-native Canadians, especially those of European decent, who back in the 1800's drove the Natives off their lands and put them on reservations. The deals the government made for the natives to go "peacefully" was that they could live their traditional life on the reserves and the government wouldn't stop them. As the country grew, and so did our awareness of what Non-native Canadians were doing we had to draft official treaties. By this point, in an effort at animal conservention, the Canadian government had put strict controls for hunting on non-natives. You can only fish lobster 2 months out of the year, and you can only take so many, Only 10 moose hunting liscenses are given a year, and you can only hunt them for 1 month, etc. Natives are exempt from these laws, they can hunt anything they'd like at any time.
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WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! Aren't white/silver bearded gay men referred to as Polar Bears?????
Is this another homophobe thread??
The old reservation trick.. Same thing with Red Indians and to some extent the Aborigines..
So what you're saying is that its ok to hunt as long as there are quotas...
Can you explain the 'permission' aspect a little more please. And why did you refer to the Canadian government as 'we'?
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flanotsu, I can remember being a little girl and having a polar bear float in on an ice burg into my home town, 100's of Km's from where he should have been.
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I mean the Canadian Government. Native's are held to their own law code based on their traditional way of life if they choose to live on reservations.
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ok gypsy, i'll stick to my knowledge of kangaroos then. no more national geographic....those bas+ards!
No idea, i've never even seen one that's not on the living animal.
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Gypsy, I really know nothing about this issue and am educating myself as I read. I have a question. When you say 'we gave them (the indigenous people) permission to hunt the animals they've traditionally hunted', to whom are you referring?
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So how much does a polar bear rug go for? Must be a rare find (only 40 pelts per year).
Uh, I thought I got that point across. Obviously, there is no sport if the animal is extinct (and therefore no more industry). Same for commercial fishing. That's why I commented it is a delicate balance. There are some people that have to be put in check or they will take all the profit for themselves (ivory hunters?). Like Gypsy mentioned, the Canadians know they are being watched and are willing to put themselves in check.
I think you need to strike a balance. It's better to allow it and control it now, then for it to turn into poaching like in Africa.
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Not that you could see from the camera angle. And polar bears float around on ice bergs all the time, this isn't something new that started with global warming.
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Lookng at it from another perspective.. Should we be trying to proect the animals or the humans ? AS Gypsy said, they depend to hunting for livelyhood..
Of course, that's why we still have the seal hunt as well. Canada knows it's being watched by the world, it won't let the polar bears die out.
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it was in the middle of the ocean gypsy. there wasn't much mainland in sight.
I hear you there. There is always more than one side to a story. Like whaling, for the Pacific NW tribes. For them it is a sacred right. I'm not sure about the polar bear population but sometimes a species can run a muck, I read recently that there are too many wild horses in the Mid West. Obviously humans change the natural balance so a close monitoring is key. I think there is currently a row in the EU about cutting the tuna season short. Obviously a delicate balance must be struck.
For help getting off an ice burg? You know these animals spend most of their life in the water right?
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britexpat, i saw a similar doc man. The poor bear was looking at the camera for help at one stage.
Yes its a worrying thing. Saw a documentary the other day.. the poor polar bear looked totally lost as the thin ice gave way and broke away from the main part..Poor thing looked as if on a surf board.
The Canadian government manages to balance the environment and the needs of the people pretty well, we've learned our lessons about taking too much from our environment when the fishery collapsed.
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we should send the hunters out on fishing vessels as they can find polar bears floating in the ocean nowadays. unfortuantely it's due to the ice caps melting.
I believe it is the Canadian government intervening, on behalf of the hunting industry. That would be international pressure you are looking for at that point.
It's a very touchy issue. The Northwest Territories is almost 100% Inuit, and according to treaties we gave them permission to hunt the animals they've traditionally hunted, which includes whales and polar bears. Also, unfortunatly, these are poor towns, which no other industry but the hunt.
However, polar bears are also endangered....so....
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Polar bears ae becoming extinct, yet these hunters need to kill them to makea living...
Surely the Canadian government needs to intervene..