Ireland in crunch EU treaty vote

LONDON (AFP) - Britain has formally ratified the European Union's beleaguered new reform treaty, whose future was plunged into doubt when Irish voters rejected it last month, a spokesman said Thursday.

The final stage in approving the Lisbon Treaty was completed when the "instruments of ratification" were filed in Rome, some four weeks after it was passed by parliament in London.

"The documents were lodged in Rome yesterday," said a Foreign Office spokesman, referring to the official papers, sealed and bound in blue leather, which were handed to the Italian foreign ministry.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080717/wl_uk_afp/eutreatybritain_080717111711

But that is just what Washington is... A faceless entity.

I fall into the boat Southland speaks of because of the boundaries that were set between state and federal governments has been trampled over.... That is why you have groups like Southland stated. I can almost garauntee that the majority of these groups that Southland mentioned are constitutionalists.

The US Federal government does not have a declaration to tax individuals on their earnings. That is very clear. But none the less they do and the US court system is supposed to partial towards the trials that come before them regarding federal tax cases yet they are paid by the government who is prosecuting the case. Clear conflict of interest.

As far as the EU goes there are rules in the Lisbon Treaty that allow countries to exit the EU. Greenland did it in 1985 I believe.

I still fail to see why it would not work.

Being from Massachusetts I am very culturally different than someone from Texas or Washington state. Maybe as culturally different as A Brit is from an Italian. While it is true we do speak the same language I could barely understand a true Texan drawl about as much as I can understand a person speaking Cockney.

Texas still has their culture and I still have my Massachusetts culture. Our states have a large difference on legislative laws such as speeds by automobiles to rules on carrying a firearm.

State and District Supreme courts see to that. If a Brit wants to keep his fish & chips culture why couldn't he? I have lived in Europe for over 9 years now in 5 different countries and I truly haven't seen how any of those countries changed identity wise from being in the EU...

In fact it is Brits themselves that are changing Britain's identity... not a faceless EU institution...

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

for..... Values,traditions etc. Imagine if someone told ya the USA had to turn over its laws and customs to some faceless untouchable entity.....

Yer would be powerless to do anything !

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Mr Paul.... you mean they will not let you guys eat fish & chips??!! And pubs will be closed??!! Oh, my God the 'national' dish of curry will be forbidden???!!!

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

Who wants to be part of a super state.....England will lose its culture and national identity forever...

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I hate to break it to you about America, I'm sure there are millions that want nothing to do with our federal government. Just start by asking those in the South that are waiting to 'rise again'; or those that refuse to pay federal taxes, etc., etc..

As well, at the start of things America was only 13 colonies and all from the same heritage/language. I am sure there motivation was more financial than idealogical (i.e. taxation without representation).

It is my understanding that most of the 'new' states of Europe (e.g. Italy and Germany, unified at close of WWI) are already modeled on a federal system. The EU, is more like a super-state structure, akin to all of the nations in the Western Hemisphere being a United States of Americas.

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

The corrupt,lying,arrogant, selfish bunch of overpaid spoilt twats !!

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They strongly believe in the resurrection.....

Al esfuerzo y heroísmo de una revolución:

No los queremos!, y No les necesitamos!

Fidel Castro a los "Marielitos"

.”

By GEORGE PASCOE-WATSON

Political Editor

and CLODAGH HARTLEY

Home Affairs Correspondent

in Dublin

Published: Today

GORDON Brown was blasted last night after he ploughed on with the hated EU Treaty — even after a huge "No" vote in Ireland's referendum left it dead in the water.

Despite the extraordinary Friday the 13th massacre, the Prime Minister vowed to push the Lisbon Treaty through Parliament.

Yes, it's a No ... treaty opponents in Brussels cheer the Irish result on TV

Yes, it's a No ... treaty opponents in Brussels

cheer the Irish result on TV

Meanwhile arrogant European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso insisted the reform package was still ALIVE — while Foreign Secretary David Miliband confirmed Britain would press ahead with ratification.

Their actions followed astonishing scenes in Ireland, where Finance Minister Brian Lenihan was heckled at one count centre by voters singing "No, no, there’s no Lisbon" to the tune of the 1993 chart hit No Limit.

The Lisbon Treaty was rejected by 53.4 per cent to 46.6 per cent — a majority of nearly seven per cent.

Under EU rules that means the package, which would create an elected EU president and an EU foreign minister while cutting the number of national vetoes, is officially dead.

It would need to be ratified by all 27 member states to become law.

But last night EU chiefs were plotting to shame the Irish, led by Prime Minister Brian Cowen, into holding a RE-RUN to squeeze out a "Yes" vote.

President Barroso said: "We should not rush to conclusions. Prime Minister Brian Cowen believes the Treaty is not dead.

"I believe it is alive and we should try to find a solution. When 27 governments decided to adopt the Treaty it wasn’t for fun. They did it because they believed there was a problem.

"The problem is still there. We cannot avoid it. We should go on trying to find a solution to make Europe more effective.

Respect

"This result is of course important and we should respect it. But we should not pretend it in itself solves the problem."

The bombshell "No" result is the THIRD time the Lisbon Treaty has been rejected by voters.

It was booted out by the French and Dutch in 2005, when it was called the EU Constitution.

Yet Mr Brown still rang French President Nikolas Sarkozy and assured him Britain will press ahead.

Last night the PM — who has refused to give the British a say — was accused of ignoring the will of the people.

Furious shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague fumed: "If Gordon Brown presses ahead with the renamed EU Constitution it would be a demonstration of his extraordinary contempt for voters.

"Once again he would be treating the British people like fools. If he had any guts or any honour he would now hold the referendum that he promised voters and which the British people deserve."

Former minister and Labour MP Frank Field said: "The result speaks volumes. The people in the one country given a chance to vote have clearly rejected the Treaty.

"The Government must withdraw its Bill ratifying the Treaty, which should now be dead."

The "No" campaign seized victory from an arrogant "Yes" body made up from mainstream political parties and the majority of the media.

Only The Irish Sun and our sister paper The Sunday Times crusaded for a "No" vote.

But voters kicked the Treaty into touch because they wanted to keep Ireland’s right to make its own laws.

The result will send shockwaves through Brussels’ corridors of power.

Mr Brown had the option of declaring the Treaty dead in the water.

But as jubilant "No" campaigners celebrated in Dublin AND Brussels, No.10 confirmed he will go ahead with putting it on the UK statute book.

It will go to the Lords next week for its third reading.

Mr Brown and the rest of Europe’s 26 Premiers and Presidents will hold crisis talks next Thursday in Brussels.

Bullying

Yet they have already privately agreed to isolate and embarrass Dublin into holding a re-run to get the "right" result.

President Barroso continued: "This vote should not been seen as a vote against the EU. The ratification process is made up of 27 processes. The European Commission believes the ratification procedures should continue to take their course."

Mr Miliband said: "I think it is right we follow the view that each country must see the ratification process to a conclusion. I believe it is right we continue with our process."

But he made clear that a British referendum was not on the cards.

He said: "Our Parliament has been able to give this 30 or more days of very careful scrutiny.

"I think that, around Europe, has been recognised as the right way to look at a very detailed treaty."

However, a spokesman for independent think-tank Open Europe said: "Irish voters faced down a bullying campaign by Europe’s political elite to intimidate them into voting ‘Yes’.

"They’ve shown immense courage in rejecting a Treaty that would make the EU even more centralised and unaccountable. This is a resounding victory on behalf of ordinary people over an out-of-touch political elite."

Irish voters rejected the Nice Treaty in 2001 in a referendum.

Premier Bertie Ahern later held a re-run and won a "Yes" vote. He quit this year in what many saw as a bid to clinch a referendum Yes.

But even that tactic failed to work as the Irish gave the constitution a giant two-fingered salute.

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This is why we dont want this crap in the UK, we will have no say in anything anymore....But it looks like the twats in the houses of parliament will push it through....

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I fail to see why the EU cannot operate a centralized federal government in the same fashion that American states do with their Federal government?

America's constitution was ratified by each member state of the Union by representatives. There were no referendums in any states. Senior statesmen were sent as delegates to make sure that their state was not taken advantage of by another.

No one knows if the American constitution would have been ratified by each member state if all citizens were given a vote. But I am certain that every American in the modern age is happy that it was ratified by those men in 1787.

Federal government was setup to be limited. So that the power rested in the state and local governments not a huge bureaucratic entity in Washington.

Over time this has been eroded with many federal agencies such as Department of Education and Department of Transportation but some will argue that it is for the better none the less.

I hope I do not come across as someone telling Europeans to adopt an American system. I am merely questioning why a limited central European government would not work along with nation state's retaining their powers similar to how American states have?

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

Really it means that the idea that we have a democratic goverment will be abolished and ruled over by one (supposed democratic) united body. Which in itself means that what little we truly possess of the democratic vote will cease to exist.

As it stands different goverments in the EU have the right to reject or accept EU legislation. Much of the current power held would almost cease to exist if one ruling body were to form and govern all state powers in the European union.

In other words.. a great way for the anti christ to come and rule over the world by being president of the european union and controlling our lives. (but thats mythical right?)

Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi

This is happening already.. The original idea of the EU was a loose confederation. Now it seems they want control over all aspects of our lives..

Did you know that an MEP can earn over 300K sterling a year?

TIME TO SAY ENOUGH!

EVERY law they have to Brussels, meaning Britain has NO say in how the country is run, thats why it will be a disaster and the end of the UK.

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"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

I did download the Lisbon Treaty in a PDF version, I started to read it and still can't understand some of the technical writings.

I did ask my brother to give me a quick interpretation of the Lisbon Treaty; He's replied was: I'm a lawyer, who works for a living, Europeans with their cultural grandeur and Hundreds of years slaughtering each other, Finally they figure it out. One piece of document that will united them in a common cause.

I like better the US constitution which is more comprehensive and older than the European constitution.

Al esfuerzo y heroísmo de una revolución:

No los queremos!, y No les necesitamos!

Fidel Castro a los "Marielitos"

.”

Yes you are correct. Many aspects are already present. however, I am not an expert, but I believe that this treaty, gets into more granular aspects of the relations between the nations and the central body. It probably gets into more issues like globalization, relationships, global warming etc etc.

Thanks for the explanation Brit.

Maybe as an American it does not seem so much of a big deal to me b/c of the way America is set up regarding state and federal government.

How would a centralized European government under the Lisbon treaty erode member nations sovereignty that has not already been done simply by being a member of the EU?

From my understanding the EU court already does dictate laws and jurisprudence for the EU. That is a done deal... Meaning nothing to do with the Lisbon treaty.

Is the issue of a possible political office being created explicitly for a president type individual (instead of the rotating 6 months program currently being exercised) laid out within the Lisbon treaty?

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

The main concerns are related to loss of sovereignty..

The EU has its own court , which will enforce laws onto member countries.. Simple things like smacking a child to the death penalty.

The EU is also proposing to have a President. People are unsure, what sort of power he, or the EU will have over the governments of countries.

Lastly, taxation etc, can be dictated by the EU..

So you can see, an ordinary persoon is vary of the power of the EU.

Yes Brit it does. But my question is what about the treaty are they so skeptical about?

What are the specific concerns?

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

The EU has come up with a new consitution or a treaty as they call it. It is the framework for thee way the EU will function in the future, its roles and responsibilities, laws, etc etc.

All 24 countries have to say 'YES' in order for it to pass. Some countries, like Ireland have decided to ask the voters for their opinion.. In the others, like the UK, the government in power has said that it will decide on which way to vote..

The Irish people have voted NO, in the referendum. This should mean that the Irish government must as NO. This means that the treaty in its current form is dead.

Hope that makes sense.

What is it about this treaty that the Brits and Irish are so skeptical about?

I know the French and I think the Dutch voted against the previous attempt on a referendum but I am not sure exactly why?

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

Very nice heirloom.

i got a couple of those monetary coins and postal stamps from the vatican for my private collection...

And let's dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world. Let us dedicate ourselves to that, and say a prayer for our country and for our people.

Sorry man, I should copy and paste the following comment below my first statement.

i had 6 threads open.

DUBLIN (AFP) - Early indications Friday pointed to a rejection of the Lisbon EU reform treaty by voters in Ireland, an outcome that would pitch the European Union into a new period of crisis.

And let's dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world. Let us dedicate ourselves to that, and say a prayer for our country and for our people.

Last I heard (about 20 years ago) the Vatican was the wealthiest 'country' in the world with no standing army.

Bush treated to warm greeting at Vatican

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 3 minutes ago

ROME - Pope Benedict XVI took President Bush on a rare stroll through the lush grounds of the Vatican Gardens on Friday, stopping at a grotto where the pontiff prays daily.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_europe_87

Do you know that the VATICAN has their own currency. Only suitable for the VATICAN! and it is backup with Gold and Silver....

And let's dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world. Let us dedicate ourselves to that, and say a prayer for our country and for our people.

Dollar grabs spotlight at G8 inflation talks

By Tetsushi Kajimoto

As soaring energy costs stirred protests from Malaysia to Spain, the world'OSAKA, Japan (Reuters) - The U.S. dollar took centre stage as Group of Eight finance ministers gathered in Japan on Friday to wrestle with surging inflation and the impact of record oil prices on a slowing global economys most powerful governments talked up the link between dollar weakness and a doubling of oil prices in the past 12 months.

The G8, mostly importers of crude, wields little influence over oil markets, driven by demand from India and China and concerns about supply. But it can try to arrest a slide in the U.S. currency that has prompted investors to buy oil futures and other commodities to hedge their dollar risks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080613/bs_nm/g8_dc_4

which thread are you on ??

In what currency do expats get paid that work for Qatari businesses/government?

Myself, I like a strong $.

Oil will fall?

Maybe the dollar will raise against the Euro.....

And let's dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world. Let us dedicate ourselves to that, and say a prayer for our country and for our people.

The government is, but the people obviously are not.

22 minutes ago

DUBLIN (AFP) - Irish voters have rejected the EU's Lisbon Treaty, state broadcaster RTE projected Friday as official results from the referendum began being published.

vote from the Irish..

If only the British government had the guts to put it to a vote...

I thought that the Irish were pro-European Union.

Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman

by Andrew Bushe 21 minutes ago

DUBLIN (AFP) - Early indications Friday pointed to a rejection of the Lisbon EU reform treaty by voters in Ireland, an outcome that would pitch the European Union into a new period of crisis.