Isreal and the Qur'an
Shame my previous thread got locked but from another site have found that actually thee Qur'an promises Eqypt to the Isrealis!!!!
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/israel_land_egypt.html
The Holy Bible in many places speaks of God giving Israel the land of Canaan as their everlasting and cherished possession:
"The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." Genesis 17:8
"So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey – the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites… And I have promised to bring you up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites – a land flowing with milk and honey." Exodus 3:8, 17
"I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they lived as aliens." Exodus 6:4
Given these clear statements from the Holy Bible, it may come as a surprise to some readers to discover that the Quran actually teaches that the Promised Land which Israel was to inherit was Egypt! Before presenting the evidence for this we need to first mention that the words Canaan, Israel (the land, not the people), Judea or Jerusalem never appear in the Quran, which is truly bewildering and astonishing to say the least.
When the Quran does speak of Israel's inheritance it simply refers to the land or city which God gave them. For instance:
And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Remember Allah's favour unto you, how He placed among you prophets, and He made you kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures. O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers: They said: O Moses! Lo! a giant people (dwell) therein and lo! we go not in till they go forth from thence. When they go forth from thence, then we will enter (not till then). Then out spake two of those who feared (their Lord, men) unto whom Allah had been gracious: Enter in upon them by the gate, for if ye enter by it, lo! ye will be victorious. So put your trust (in Allah) if ye are indeed believers. They said: O Moses! We will never enter (the land) while they are in it. So go thou and thy Lord and fight! We will sit here. He said: My Lord! I have control of none but myself and my brother, so distinguish between us and the wrong-doing folk. (Their Lord) said: For this the land will surely be forbidden them for forty years that they will wander in the earth, bewildered. So grieve not over the wrongdoing folk. S. 5:20-26 Pickthall
The text doesn't identify exactly where this holy land was situated, who these giants were, or which two men feared their Lord. The only way to know the answers is to go outside of the Quran and consult the Holy Bible:
"The LORD said to Moses, ‘Send some men to explore the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the Israelites. From each ancestral tribe send one of its leaders.’ So at the LORD's command Moses sent them out from the Desert of Paran. All of them were leaders of the Israelites… When Moses sent them to explore Canaan, he said, ‘Go up through the Negev and on into the hill country. See what the land is like and whether the people who live there are strong or weak, few or many. What kind of land do they live in? Is it good or bad? What kind of towns do they live in? Are they unwalled or fortified? How is the soil? Is it fertile or poor? Are there trees on it or not? Do your best to bring back some of the fruit of the land.’ (It was the season for the first ripe grapes.) So they went up and explored the land from the Desert of Zin as far as Rehob, toward Lebo Hamath. They went up through the Negev and came to Hebron, where Ahiman, Sheshai and Talmai, the descendants of Anak, lived. (Hebron had been built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.) When they reached the Valley of Eshcol, they cut off a branch bearing a single cluster of grapes. Two of them carried it on a pole between them, along with some pomegranates and figs. That place was called the Valley of Eshcol because of the cluster of grapes the Israelites cut off there. At the end of forty days they returned from exploring the land. They came back to Moses and Aaron and the whole Israelite community at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. There they reported to them and to the whole assembly and showed them the fruit of the land. They gave Moses this account: ‘We went into the land to which you sent us, and it does flow with milk and honey! Here is its fruit. But the people who live there are powerful, and the cities are fortified and very large. We even saw descendants of Anak there. The Amalekites live in the Negev; the Hittites, Jebusites and Amorites live in the hill country; and the Canaanites live near the sea and along the Jordan.’ Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, ‘We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it.’ But the men who had gone up with him said, ‘We can't attack those people; they are stronger than we are.’ And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, ‘The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.’" Numbers 13:1-3, 17-33
{As a side note, Q. 5:20 contains a gross anachronism since it has Moses speaking of Israel’s kings when in fact Israel had no kings until centuries later during the time of Samuel. See this article for more details.}
Yet if we stick strictly with the Quran itself and take into consideration all the references to the Exodus of Israel then it becomes apparent that the author(s) thought that the land given to Israel wasn't Jerusalem or Canaan but Egypt!
And WE revealed to Moses, directing him, ‘Take away MY servants by night, you will surely be pursued.’ And Pharaoh sent summoners into the cities, announcing, ‘These are a small party, Yet they have offended us; And we are a multitude fully prepared and vigilant.’ So WE turned them out of gardens and springs, And treasures and an abode of honour. Thus it was; and WE gave them as heritage to the children of Israel. S. 26:52-59 Sher Ali
The foregoing verses indicate that the Israelites were made the inheritors of Egypt right after the destruction of Pharaoh and his armies in the sea. The Egyptians were "turned out" and their gardens were given to the children of Israel. The next citations support this position:
They said: We have been persecuted before you came to us and since you have come to us. He said: It may be that your Lord will destroy your enemy and make you rulers in the land, then He will see how you act. And certainly We overtook Firon's people with droughts and diminution of fruits that they may be mindful. S. 7:129-130 Shakir
Therefore We inflicted retribution on them and drowned them in the sea because they rejected Our signs and were heedless of them. And We made the people who were deemed weak to inherit the eastern land and the western ones which We had blessed; and the good word of your Lord was fulfilled in the children of Israel because they bore up (sufferings) patiently; and We utterly destroyed what Firon and his people had wrought and what they built. S. 7:136-137
When taking these passages together as a unit (which we must seeing that they are all part of the same context) then the conclusion is that Israel was given the eastern and western parts of Egypt and became rulers of it. This next quote provides further substantiation that the Quran's author(s) erroenously assumed that Israel did take over Egypt:
We will recite to thee something of the tiding of Moses and Pharaoh truthfully, for a people who believe. Now Pharaoh had exalted himself IN THE LAND and had divided its inhabitants into sects, abasing one party of them, slaughtering their sons, and sparing their women; for he was of the workers of corruption. Yet We desired to be gracious to those that were abased IN THE LAND, and to make them LEADERS, and to make them THE INHERITORS, AND TO ESTABLISH THEM IN THE LAND, and to show Pharaoh and Haman, and their hosts, what they were dreading from them. S. 28:2-6 Arberry
Quite obviously, since the Israelites were the weak party which Pharaoh abased in the land then this means that they were the ones who inherited the land of Egypt! This passage three times uses "in the land": The Pharaoh had exalted himself "in the land" (in Egypt), the Israelites are "those that were abased in the land" (in Egypt) and Allah decided to "to make them inheritors, and to establish them in the land". The only logical interpretation is that Allah intended to establish them in the same land that was spoken about throughout these verses. There is absolutely no indication that "the land" refers to some other country. It does not say "and to establish them in another land".
Moreover, the Quran in Q. 7:110 and 7:123 (as well as in Q. 20:57,63) says that Pharaoh and his chiefs were dreading that the Israelites would expel the Egyptians out of the land:
Said the Council of the people of Pharaoh, 'Surely this man is a cunning sorcerer who desires to expel you from your land; what do you command?' ... Said Pharaoh, 'You have believed in Him before I gave you leave. Surely this is a device you have devised in the city that you may expel its people from it. Now you shall know!
This again implicitly supports the fact that the author(s) mistakenly thought that the land that God promised to grant the Israelites was Egypt.
In his commentary on Q. 7, Ibn Kathir ties in Q. 7:137 with Q. 28:5-6 and says:
is explained by Allah's other statement...
[28:5-6]. (Source)
And in regard to Q. 28:2-6 Ibn Kathir writes:
This refers to the Children of Israel, who at that time were the best of people, even though this tyrant king overpowered them, using them to do the most menial work and forcing them to hard labor night and day for him and his people. At the same time, he was killing their sons and letting their daughters live, to humiliate them and because he feared that there might appear among them the boy who would be the cause of his destruction and the downfall of his kingdom. So Fir`awn took precautions against that happening, by ordering that all boys born to the Children of Israel should be killed, but this precaution did not protect him against the divine decree, because when the term of Allah comes, it cannot be delayed, and for each and every matter there is a decree from Allah. Allah says:
until His saying;
And Allah did indeed do this to them, as He says...
until His saying...
(7:137). And Allah said...
(26: 59). Fir`awn hoped that by his strength and power he would be saved from Musa, but that did not help him in the slightest. Despite his great power as a king he could not oppose the decree of Allah, which can never be overcome. On the contrary, Allah's ruling was carried out, for it had been written and decreed from past eternity that Fir`awn would meet his doom at the hands of Musa. (Source)
In fact, Ibn Kathir identifies the people who inherited Egypt according to this next verse:
Thus it happened. And WE made another people inherit these things. S. 44:28 Sher Ali
As the Israelites:
(Thus (it was)! And We made other people inherit them.) namely the Children of Israel. (Source)
Here is the final passage which links Egypt with the Promised Land:
And when you said, 'Moses, we will not endure one sort of food; pray to thy Lord for us, that He may bring forth for us of that the earth produces-green herbs, cucumbers, corn, lentils, onions.' He said, 'Would you have in exchange what is meaner for what is better? Get you down to EGYPT (misran); you shall have there that you demanded.' And abasement and poverty were pitched upon them, and they were laden with the burden of God's anger; that, because they had disbelieved the signs of God and slain the Prophets unrightfully; that, because they disobeyed, and were transgressors. S. 2:61 A.J. Arberry
I haven't copied anymore as you can find out the rest yourself, but I have found this a fascinating insight.
In that case, be more specific. There ARE other sorts of peoples around here, I know it sounds strange :-P
That one was only intended for Hindis! You don't know Hindi you are not supposed to understand it.
And Mr. umbilical chord my Ass is quite dumb! Actually it has a much Lower IQ than my brain!
I did misplace the H, I realized that.
And how the %^&*%^&( am I supposed to know Hindi :-P
Funiculus, Please read the previous posts too. The H in Ghandi (Gandhi) is in the wrong location so I have purposefully displaced the H in Khol. Besides "Helmet Khol" in Hindi means "Remove the Helmet"
Helmet Khol & India Gandhi is Tit for Tat.
Edifis,
In the future, if you wish to make fun of a spelling mistake from my side, fine. HOWEVER, Mr. Smart-ass...
[quote]
It's like same Former German chancellor "Helmet Khol"....LOL
[unquote]
...... make sure YOU type the name of YOUR example correct, Helmet Kohl?
Khalid,
I just asked you:
Gandhi, heaven or hell. Where will he go.
I get answer, thank you. A wiki quote of a thousand words, not so much thank you.
Is it possible for you to FOR ONCE give a straight answer that comes from YOU and not from the Quran or Wikipedia.
I agree
Khalid, you can summarize the topic in your own words, and then also provide the link. But reading large texts that have just been copy and pasted can be tedious. I think most people agree with that as well, and tend not to read them.
I only next time I will put only the link if it ia ok with you MissX
I so agree with you qatarilady :)
Khalid, I thought we had words about this copying and pasting business.
Note to self: Does not respond to positive conditioning.
From Buddhism
The Barmakid family - originally the guardians of the great Buddhist shrine near Balkh, upon conversion they became "the greatest family" in the early Abbasid caliphate.
Mahmud Ghazan - seventh ruler of the Ilkhanate.
Muhammad Khodabandeh - eighth Ilkhaid dynasty ruler in Iran from 1304 to 1316.
Mubarak Shah - head of the ulus of the Chagatai Khanate (1252–1260, March-September 1266).
Tarmashirin - Khan of the Chagatai Khanate following Duwa Timur.
Hussein Ye - An Islamic scholar of Chinese descent whose lectures are frequently aired on Peace TV.
From Hinduism
Parameswara (sultan) the Palembang prince of Hindu descent.Parameswara - Malay prince of Palembang Hindu descent from Srivijaya that founded the Sultanate of Malacca around 1402.
Sumita Devi - Bengali actress and filmmaker.
Vilayil Fazila - popular Mappila songs singer from Kerala.[citation needed]
Murshid Quli Khan - the Mughal governor of Bengal.
Malik Kafur - Indian military general.
Abdul Wahid Pedersen - Danish cleric.
Cheraman Perumal - The first Indian king to accept Islam
Sahaj Ram Sapru - the grandfather of the British-Indian Muslim Philosopher, Sir Dr. Muhammad Iqbal, who was an official in Kashmir during the administration of the Afghan Governor Azim Khan. [174]
Kamala Suraiyya (formerly Kamala Das) - Anglo-Malayalam writer[175]
Sharmila Tagore (Begum Ayesha Sultana) - Bollywood film actress.[176]
Megat Iskandar Shah - first Muslim ruler of Malacca.
Kabir Suman- Modern Bengali singer & songwriter officially converted to Islam from Hinduism in 2000.
Tansen - Notable musician and poet.
A.R. Rahman (stands for Allah Rakha Rahman) - Modern South Indian singer ,songwriter & Oscar winner officially converted to Islam from Hinduism.
From Sikhism
Ubaidullah Sindhi - religious leader and political activist.
From Paganism
See also: List of Sahaba
Berke - grandson of Genghis Khan and leader of the Golden Horde who was the first Mongol ruler to establish Islam in a Mongol state.
David Myatt - from Paganism, former Neo-Nazi-activist
Negudar - Mongol general and noyan
Nogai Khan - Mongol general and great-grandson of Genghis Khan.
Samori Ture - founder of the Wassoulou Empire who resisted French rule in West Africa.
Sultan Satuq Bughra Khan - 9th century Uyghur ruler who was one of the first Turks to convert to Islam.
Tuda Mengu - Mongol leader of the Golden Horde
West African leader Samori Ture who fought European colonialismTughlugh Timur - the Khan of Moghulistan.
I got this from wekipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Islam
You can not compare God to a normal manufacturer.
Is a human creation as simple as you think.
You have to know that Islam came to complete what was missing in the bible and Torahat.
People ask for will and freedom to do whatever they feel like doing, and when they screw up they say: Oh it's God's fault!
i feel like you have not read my above comment before you posted this one! I totally disagree with your point that God's creation is not perfect,how would you define perfect to be? so where do you think we came from?? from monkey like creatures, that by the way, came from nothing?
If God makes humans
Then God's creation is not perfect.
What would you say if you buy a product and find a defect in it. Wouldn't you blame the manufacturer?
you are mistaken edifis, God makes humans and they choose to be either good or bad. Its not got to do with God making bad people or good. He has created and given us a set of rules that we should abide by and it is us that choose to obey or disobey him!
Then why did he make the tower of babel?
For fun, I guess?
And all his creations are not perfect.
Look around, there is so much violence and blood shed. all this must be God's will then.
edifis, i dont think God can ever or will ever make mistakes.
Hmmmm! CS4, is that the latest MD? I am getting backdated, still using CS2. I guess now I have to download CS3 and CS4.
You and Adobe CS4, edifis.
Really MD, then who is this
Now you can say India Ghandi.....LOL
Not "Helmet", edifis, "Helmut", Lol.
not Ghandi, then say "Indira Gandhi" the former PM of India. you've put the H in the wrong place.
It's like same Former German chancellor "Helmet Khol"....LOL
Indira Ghandi, former (female) Prime Minister of India.
Who is Ghandi??
Brother Khalid: It's easy to say that because seams that the most of us, muslims, like to advertise convertions to Islam, but i'm also aware of several muslims adopting christianism, one of the countries where it happens is Lebannon and also in Turkey. If we want to be respected, we should respect other religions too, calling corrupted to the other beliefs isn't a way of showing respect towards others, even if we belive that Islam is the true religion.
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Khalid,
The fastest growing religion, of course. Muslim generally have more kids in comparison with Westerners, especially when you have 4 wives it may go pretty fast.
How many celebrities have joined Scientology or such?
And point 3 is a statement as weak as a boneless chicken, you have to give examples.
Further more, it is extremely arrogant and immoral to claim to be the only true religion. As in the end, it just may be that you are not judged upon how many times per day you pray or how many Surah's you can memorize, but on what you have done to lead a fulfilling life.
Question: Ghandi, according to your logic:
Heaven or Hell?
Roadtester: Thanks for the link, it seams interesting, and i agree with the author, recognizing contradictions in both books will help to get a better understanding between both beliefs, hope my other muslim brothers will see it the same way i and the author see it.
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Wow, I do hope that these guys are not desperate and depleted Normally when you failed in one struggle, the next option is "when you cannot beat em, join em" . Either case, that won't benefits in both way.
Even God can make mistakes!
"To err is divine, to forgive Human" - Anon
Because:
1. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world
2. Many foreign scientists and philosophers and educated people are entering Islam every day.
3. Muslim preachers succeeded in the areas where christian preachers failed.
Also you can go to Wikipedia and see how many well known people converted to Islam.
They converted naturally after investigation with their own self.
Why do I care about how many inconsistencies/errors etc there are in the Bible, when I dont believe in the bible either lol. Its funny how many muslims automatically use 'the bible is inconsistent' excuse rather than be honest and actually discuss it
It can be said without a doubt 100% the Bible and Qur'an and the Hadiths (which are equally bad as the bible) have all been corrupted.
Bible contradictions:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/#collect
Qu'ran contradictions:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/
Yes lol, he never fails to amuse.
Wow what a choice he made for a name!
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
You really have to simply love MissX her arguments.....
I could not have said it any better.
Best regards,
Umbilical Lasso.
*yihaa*
Firstly, QL "Umbilical Cord" was a joke, that's what his name means lol.
And secondly, I would like to congratulate Khalid for providing a link to the examples he was referring to, rather than copy and pasting it all. It's appreciated.
Thirdly, if you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got. Something needs to change.
Double P
legal pad, that's the muslim belief and i also found this mikeblume.com/jewcurse.htm
and Thessalonians 2:14-16
And how many mistakes has this gentleman found in the Quran?
Hapy said:
but after they kept killing God's messengers they were cursed by God through the words of Jesus.
===== Sometimes Ignorance is a form of impotence======....
List your sources to backup your religious statement...
Graduated from Xavier Institute for Higher learning.
Khalid the answers to the bible you seek are here....
http://www.qatarliving.com/node/598705
for example Ahmad deedat is one the best people who knows the bible more than christians and he found 50,000 error in the bible
and here is one link which shows the errors
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible4-6.html
There must be a mistake in the Bible, and its no wonder why the Israelis would love to drive the palestinians off into the mediterranean seas.
[quote:] "And fights through the international community with support of the Arabic nations."
Do you know why USA turns a blind eye to some Arab presidential elections that result in %99.9 for a permanent President while imposing sanctions on other countries who allegedly oppress their ppls? Because they guard the Israeli borders not allowing even food to go to the Palestinians..
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
So Qatari Lady,
If you have very bad cards in your hand, do you gamble? NO.
So instead of wasting money on 'tiny missiles', which are still lethal, maybe it should be spend on bread and butter. And fights through the international community with support of the Arabic nations.
Hows that?
First of all your name is too long.. Get used to Funi..
Second of all.. Sorry I gave an incomplete picture.. The right statement is: tiny missiles in a surrounding of injustice and starvation!
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
all this kinda sounds like the story in the bible where the two women are fighting over the child. King Solomen in his wise wisdom took the child and was about to cut it in half - his plan was to give each woman half.
The one lady then begged him not to, and gave the baby to that woman, as he felt that she had displayed true love for the child - so she must be his mother.
FU, your solution is pretty much the same, however, in this case, I think both parties would be too stubborn to give up claims - so BANG!
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
QatarLady,
First the full name is
Funiculus Umbilicalis
Secondly,
A tiny missile or a big one. It should not happen at ALL. If you have the balls to kick against the heels of Goliath, expect to be stamped on the head... do not expect an equal reaction. Simple as that. If somebody punches me in the face and it did not hurt, I will not consider a small retaliation, I will be kicking his ass until he begs for forgiveness. Simple dynamics of action - reaction.
BUT... we are past the stage of finger pointing, we have had half a century of that childish bollocks. Now, both parties should set aside their prides and stop dick-swinging and just reach a freaking compromise.
Inhumanity, deaths how many is this conflict worth?>
10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000? Infinite?
Was that a mistake or a joke? :)
(the umbilical cord thing)
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
If USA stops the economical, military and political support the problem will be solved.. Whenever Hamas (not Hezbolla) shoots a tiny so-called missile on Israel they will run to Mommy Washington..
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
Well Taher,
If somebody screams Allah Ikbar and waives around with a gun, forgive the infidels for assuming they are Muslims.
Maybe you, Muslims, should send a letter and request particular extremist groups to leave Allah out of the matter.
Just like Americans should stop saying for God and Country and just be fucking honest and say
For Money and Power.
I dont wanna name any religion , But those who create misconceptions about islam
why the media call terrorist group as Islamic groups why arnt they call with there group names, hope u got answer
Taher,
Always funny that people refer to 'enemies' of Islam.
As previous Christian, nobody ever told me about 'enemies'.
So you tell me who are your enemies?
Amen sister X, again!!
Sure namQ8,
But this particular problem has been dragging on for decades and nobody has EVER come up with a proper solution. So, naturally I would try to opt for a unconventional solution that will equally affect both parties. 2 years to get out, if you don't... you know what will happen.
Regardless of that unrealistic idea, the point I am trying to make is that there is not enough pressure. Not from Arabs on Palestinians to kick out Hezbollah and not from the West to pressure Israel back behind previously established borders.
So, maybe the world (Arab/West) should gather without Israel and Palestine present and come up with an mutually agreed solution which is forced upon them. If not adhered, plan B - shit-storm.
dont beleieve any websites unless u have proper reference most of the websites giving fake information on islam , which are developed by enemies of islam
I understand where you're coming from Umbilical cord. Living on this Earth is meant to be merely a short passing phase before the true life begins in heaven. In comparison of what is to come, the supposed religious sites should be then worth nothing more than sentimentality if you truly believe in the afterlife and your eternal existence in it. Like you said, religion is not where you practice it, but how you practice it. And fighting & killing people over a piece of land I'm sure is not God's idea of practicing his religion.
thumbsup qatarilady.i agree to each and every word you have said.as for taking away the bone and candy or whatever,if you r going to take one bone then there is always going to be another to fight over. how many bones are u going to destroy.
QatariLady,
Good idea.
I was hoping that Europe would grow a pair of balls and slap the United States in the face.... especially now that the USA is weak economically. But no.
My best guess is, years and years of misery for the region.
Let's go to the realistic solution that all parties will accept, myself included, which is international peacekeeping force..
For such a solution to work and to be accepted it has to be impartial and so far the only authority that can endorse and implement it is the Security Council.. In its current form it's ineffective because 5 countries nominated I think in the 195os or so control it and you know how the veto can nail down any resolution..
How can it be democratized?
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
QatarLady,
Yes we will never agree because one of us has an objective and one of us has a subjective approach to the matter. You choose.
My points
1) 2 Dogs fighting over a bone - destroy the bone, so there is nothing to fight over.
2) Turn up the heat on both parties, they will come to an agreement if the pressure for once is serious.
3) Land = land, religion has NOTHING to do with what is in the hearts and minds. To me the land is like the Tower of Babel, everybody worships it and it caused havoc. If anything, your dispute may be (in your eyes) the consequences of Burj Babil.
QL: Politicians that use religion as excuse
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Sure a nuclear bomb is a disaster because it takes everything and everyone in its way.. You say religion is aggressive yet it's politicians who made the most disastrous attacks..
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
Oh serious..
Then I'll ask you seriously to edit it pls.
Just because you think something is unimportant doesn't make it so.. I don' know about the Israelis but to Muslims Jerusalem is second to Mecca..
We'll never (you and I as debators) reach an agreement on this issue because of different backgrounds.. You're settled with a religion of your own you make its rules..
We don't question Gods' rules because we're not equal to Him we're not Godlets.
So please edit it.
____________________________________________________
You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
Steve,
Orchestrated by Humans, in order to establish a humanitarian existence for thousands.
QatarL
I realize, of course, that my solution is highly unrealistic.
However, were Iran to drop a bomb on Israel... same thing. Hiroshima all over again, and Palestinian would most like suffer just as much from radiation.
Same as ever.. Uncle Sam
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
Why stupid QatarLady?
As I stated before...
God should live inside you, in your heart and mind. Not on land. Just like you can talk to God anywhere you wish at any time.
So let them take away a site that is made holy by humans, what have you lost?
This is something I really really mean QatariLady, two children fight over candy. Do not give the candy to one person.... take it away, so they both have no reason for anger or jealousy.
Problem solved.
Dude. Who will orchestrate this policy? or should i say who will play the role of God?
[quote:] "I still prefer to destroy all holy sites though."
This is stupidity defined.. ( I know it was meant as a provocation so I won't make a "mushkilah")
As for the suggestion of the so-called peacekeepers..hmmm.. seems fine.. But first you'll have to democratize the UNSC otherwise the US will nail it down with the broken record "veto"..
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
Easy QatariLady.
Again,
Same deadline, but this time with an invasion of a huge (peacekeeping) force that imposes Martial Law and governs the Area, pushes Israel back behind its previously established borders, installs a proper government in Palestine and gives power back in stages, based on success-rate of development and peace. Meanwhile organizes programs where Israeli and Palestinian youth mixes and get acquainted, hence creating tolerance.
Something along these line.
I still prefer to destroy all holy sites though.
How does that sound?
Nope.. Think of a better solution..
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
QatariLady,
You will be amazed what proper pressure, the possibility of loosing it all, will accomplish. That's my point.
I personally blame the US for allowing the problem to continue.
[quote:] "This means they have 2 years to evacuate Palestine and Israel alike."
Is this a solution or expansion of the problem?
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
Thank you for pointing out the EXACT problem.
Way to much text based on vague books.
So, now how do we solve this problem?
Very simple:
Of course I will need to explain.
An issue that nobody can solve, sometimes needs an unconventional approach.
Hence, the first of Jan 2010 the world is giving a deadline.
"By the first of 2011 peace in the region, or get nuked by the 1st of 2012" This means they have 2 years to evacuate Palestine and Israel alike.
Fighting like dogs over land and killing thousands in the process is not acceptable, hence DESTROY the bone the dogs are fighting over so they will now have nothing to fight over anymore, and leave each other alone. Consequently thousands of people can now focus on building up a future.
Objections will be waived with the remark:
"God is in your heart and mind, not on your land"
Most websites do not allow copy pasted trach to be posted specially on controversial sunjects, i wonder when will QL catch up.
ANd the article is load of trash, picking up a few verses of Quran and then creating the whole building on biblical account. Quran says that the promise was made only if the jews will accept God, but after they kept killing God's messengers they were cursed by God through the words of Jesus.
why are you so frightened by this allegation?
Don't waste your time on this fake allegation..
AND the thread will be locked soon I guess
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You need Religion so when everyone goes to Paradise you're not left behind..
yawn