Obama--US would violate sovereignty again

Well, I guess the choice was between telling the Pak govt about OBL's hideout and chasing him for another decade OR killing OBL and the americans chose the latter. Wise choice.

just read that another gentleman Mr. headley is singing, in a chicago court, about how sweet the ISI has been to him and his murderous ilk. Did not find anybody gaping in surprise though!Old news.

As for whoever was crying about people sending their bad eggs to Pakistan, they should think why these bad eggs chose that country ...yeah probably they just love the kebabs and kadai gosht.

Maybe the US let Pakistan's government complain, because it allows it to appease the throngs in Pakistan who see OBL as a hero. Simply going along with the US publicly would have been disastrous for the government and set off a wave of violence. Complaining about sovereignty allows it to save face.

You have hit upon a key point here. This is about geo politics and the projection of different images to differing audiences.

You have to look no further than the two speeches Obama made in the space of a week regarding the palestinian issue :o)

I have no doubt the US wanted to kill him. I also have no doubt that if the US asked the Pakistanis to handle, they would have botched the job.

Besides, the old saying is that 'war is diplomacy by other means.'

Uranu, ....I forgot to mention the cheek of Pakistan to complain foul later, but a forceful diplomatic move would have just shut them up without an inch to complain about. .....I dream about any country being powerful enough to do that!

US found OBL in the compound , took him out and then asked the questions,not the other way around, the mighty US diplomacy and ability to twist the outcome unrelated incidents so as to facilitate their intensions should have played the part of extracting OBL, not Navy Seals!If there is a will, There is a way, surely!ie, If the idea was a bloodless coup, US had many ways at it's disposal.

polkadots I would say that finding OBL living for several years in a purpose-built compound next to a large military installation and at the heart of the army's zone is about as 'red-handed' as you can get.

Rather than complaining about what the US did, Pakistan should be embarrassed for having allowed OBL to live under their noses. Complaining about it just makes the government look guilty. It's almost like when parents find cigarettes in a teenager's room and then the teenager complains about parents going in his room.

True Brite, when it was done in bulk we had 9/11,Mumbai, Madrid.....so on so forth......

Uranus, Pakistan showing a white hand when questioned about OBL or any terrorist activity for that matter is a true fact, but then again The US could use it's diplomatic might to catch Pak red handed, corner it in to admitting OBL, any thing .....since I am not an International expert in Diplomacy, the many ways, possibilities are beyond me, but with the might of US behind me I will be powerful enough to have a sustainable fair victory, otherwise what use is my superior might, even the weakest wins by force once or twice!,and then looses out to the next strong player!

As Pilgram says.. Countries have been doing this before and will do so again.

You can use any words to justify your actions.

Polkadots I see your point and deplore honor killings. But i would argue that Pakistan's government violated international law first by continually leaking information to OBL and company, giving the US little choice but to take the action they did.

Do you honestly think that if Obama simply called the local authorities and said that he believed OBL was hiding in a villa that OBL would have been captured?

In terms of laws . . . laws are almost always about legitimizing and securing the authority of those in power and protecting the property rights of the (usually wealthy) individual. Occasionally there are some for social welfare.

It is obscene to equate the death of Bin Laden to rape.

How about this analogy Polkadots? I man murders two children. He goes and hides in the house in the next street for many years. The father of the murdered children discovers this. He is suspicious, because the owner of this house has been supposedly helping him loo

So tell me Uranus,

How would you rate Honor killing and "You kill/mess with mine I kill / mess with you/ yours.Soon we will have "No law situations, and you are wrong that"As in life, the person with the biggest stick does what he wants and takes what he wants."

Isn't that the foundation on which laws are made? ;-)

No,Laws are made so as to stop the might is right rule of the jungle, the foundation of laws is what is right , for both sides, Human law takes in to account the DIGNITY of both the parties concerned, and so we have a person facing the death chair treated with utmost care,up till the end, we even have humanitarian groups campaigning to abolish the Death Penalty for any crime, arguing that it violates civilized human behavior!Now if what you say were true we would not only have the judges handing out Death on a daily basis, what's more we would have the aggrieved person doing the honors himself and then walking scott free, and for your information the hypothetical situation where the Father murders the murderer of his kids, would not be tolerated in my country, as we have no provision for Revenge Killings or Honor Killings in our constitution,murder is murder and citizens are discouraged from taking law in to their hands.

well said Pilgram...the only reason this is getting headlines is that its Bin Laden taken out...countries have been doing this for years, not just the US, so don't see the problem myself...

This is hardly news. The US has been going into soverign countries to take out drug cartel heads, terrorists, dictators, etc for decades. As have many other countries.

good stuff, if the PAKIS are to stupid to know that Bin Laden was living right under their noses then go the States to take out terroists like Bin Laden

Americans are most welcome...but they should not forget to deposit the monthly cheques in our accounts.

I ask one question about 9/11 incident

Question: when the terrorists attacked pentagon ,where was American security and American intelligence?

None of the terrorist among them was Pakistani,they all acc.to news reports were Arabs and for months lived in America and got trained inside America till the day of attack.

If a most modern and qualified system of intelligence and security could not trace them ,then how do u expect this from a country who is struggling for basic amenities

Secondly nobody said these things about america at that time(9/11)

Bottom-line is as Americans did not want 9/11 incident to happen so we don't want terrorists to blast bombs in Pakistan and kill innocent people

"As in life, the person with the biggest stick does what he wants and takes what he wants."

Isn't that the foundation on which laws are made? ;-)

I agree that OBL needed to be taken out and am glad that he was.

However, as to the ongoing argument about the validity of the US actions, the simple fact is that international law does not come into it. As in life, the person with the biggest stick does what he wants and takes what he wants - and damn the consequences :o)

They make the international laws, so . . . like I said, sometimes international laws need to be broken in order to see justice.

Good one centurian.. Great people, the U.N :o)

Yes, in certain cases. They are, after all, human laws and therefore fallible. Pakistan can always take the matter to the UN.

So, accordingly, International Law goes out of the window. As I said earlier, politics is dirty and all is not always as it seems.

It is obscene to equate the death of Bin Laden to rape.

How about this analogy Polkadots? I man murders two children. He goes and hides in the house in the next street for many years. The father of the murdered children discovers this. He is suspicious, because the owner of this house has been supposedly helping him look for the murderer. So without telling the owner (for fear someone in the owner's family might alert the murderer) the father sneaks into the house to apprehend the murderer, killing him in the process. The owner and his family are not harmed in anyway. Rather than being ashamed for having allowed the killer to hide in his midst, the house's owner has the audacity to complain about the father who avenged the death of his two children.

everything will end one day.

God gives power and withholds it too..today America has it. And it wasn't a position they simply got overnight but was given to them due to the weakness of many world leaders. If they can indeed use this might to quell terrorism then all the more power to them and yet Brit is right...political affairs are far from just black/white!

I need some thing,I take it,no approval taken,now would that be a problem?

A man sees a woman and needs her, takes her ,no approval taken,now would that be a problem?

A country sees some need to be in another country,goes in deos it, no approval taken,now surely that wouldn't be a problem, would it?

Well and there are some fire crackers going off right now at some naval base in Karachi and its all over Al Jazeera and the BBC. Honestly Obama should not make the mistake of getting in and instead just live it to the locals to carry on and complete their dirty work as is being done at this very moment out there.

My ? Is why these countries produce dirty eggs ,secondly when creature like daud Ibrahim was in India then their government was sleeping or waiting for him to flee India,same goes for Osama,don't blame Pakistan .destroy these dirty eggs right where they are produced don't export them to Pakistan we don't need them,and by the way none other country than Pakistan faced suicide bomb amttacks ha ha ha ha we pakistanis are soooooooo happy being killed by terrorists produced by neighboring countries ,,,,,,,what a good joke

People tend to see things in black and white, whereas in politics things are a lot more convoluted and grey :o(

So where is the problem.They have been living off each other for all this time. Its a mutual love hate relationship like a husband and wife and when the americans really want to get in they will be allowed to get in.. after all they have been bankrolling the pakistanis with arms, money and god knows what all this years.

Might Is Right

Dude Its A Buggy Bug World After All

As an Indian, I would welcome this move. Its not that I have anything against Pak or the Pakis. I consider them our brothers as we have the same origin. Its unfortunate that the Paki government is either not willing or not strong enough to crack down on all the terrorist camps in their country. Its time they changed course from the old tactic of proxy wars against India over the Kashmir issue. Giving refuge to international terrorists like Dawood Ibrahim and Mulla Omar etc. will further tarnish the image of the country. The moderate Pakis don't deserve this humiliation.

If it's to go after people like Bin Laden,go right ahead,their sovereignty be damned...if they (whoever they may be) value their sovereignty so much,they should deal with(& by deal with i mean shoot between the eyes point blank,no questions asked) the situation themselves...

an Old saying, Might is Right, and Americans are not better than old times terrorist nations.