Yet Another Thread

Everybody is right and everybody is wrong.

I wear cowboy boots and drive a V-8. If that's oeko for you, I don't know.

Okay, then, we can agree on that.

Oh, yeah, and the government is not in charge of the sun either. So, even if I critisize how the country is run, it doesn't mean that I don't like it. But you want to see me that way, and that's your right, too. I have no problem with your view about me.

The government has nothing to do with these lovely Qatari people. They are like they are because that's how they are.

Simple answer, Alexa: It's because of Nabil, Mohammed and his family, Khalifa and his village, Jaber and his camels, Hamad and his freaky ideas, Aisha and her smile, and of course the sun, the sand, and the sea.

bring back the original title :(

It is yet another thread, RP/NOC/Laborer Wages/Family Day/White Landcruiser/Desert/Tent/Villa/Bad Driving/Slavery/Hitler/Jews/Westerners/Indian/Pakistani... We have 70% of those now, we'll get the rest by tomorrow afternoon.

Gypsy, I think there are issues with much less than 150k Qataris.

Slavery?? My grandfathers had slaves, My parents both lived in houses with slaves. This is our immediate culture, and won't change in the current generations (give it a few generation).

When you see some people calling any black person a "slave" and many calling him an "uncle" (both mostly behind their backs), you know that the shift still hasn't happened.

MD, comparing countries to people??? So you mean all countries are dead by 90 years??

At the age of 37 years, Qatar would probably be a toddler or young child when compared to other nations, and being compared to much older countries is all people do here on QL.

People coming here want us to be exact copies of a utopia-like idea they have about their own countries, the forget all the bad things there, and emphasize the bad things here.

And some people just like to whine.

I think you may have killed the thread now though, since nobody knows what it's about :(

Update : The heading has been changed since some people are sensitive to their colonial histories. But since QL is such a happy place, the show must go on :-)

---Please read our Community Guidelines before posting on Qatar Living. It will save us all a lot of pain :)

OMG, all those years I spent in bloody, freezing Cambridge and now they just give it away! I coulda been sitting in the sun, sipping a cool drink and pecking away on my computer (of course, they didn't have computers back then.) Aauugh!

Mandi

Money's only not been an issue the last 10 years...

They do, mandi.

There is no excuse for not utilizing what is available especially when money isn't an issue!

He didn't live in a tent, and he's one person, who's put through laws to protect human rights, however its the other 150,000 Qatari's that are having issues with it.

I don't think MIT gives out PhDs on-line (I hope not!)

Mandi

Sheikh Hamad is a graduate of Sandhurst, gypsy. He might have grown up in a tent, but technology allows even a person living in a tent to connect via satellite to the MIT and achieve a PHD in physics online. Didn't you know that?

lol tallg..

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tEaCh Me RuLeS, i'Ll TeAcH hOw To BrEaK iT ..

rMs..!!

Well MD, having come from a place where most people live in trailers (which are even more high-tech then tents) and none of them have a PhD by 37, I would be impressed if someone who never went to regular school and grew up in a tent could do it.

I take back what I said earlier. It's become stupid now.

I can, gypsy. I just did it. Who are you to tell me what I can and what I cannot? Never mind, I still like you.

You can't compare a nation to a person. And sorry, but unless they come from a pretty privledged background, and not a tent in the desert, they wouldn't have a PhD. You'd be lucky if they had a high school diploma.

The wording of the UN: "Low expertise government". The title of the report on education: "The Missed Chance".

I don't want to be misunderstood: Qatar is a mere 37 years 'old'. If we compare Qatar to a human being at the age of 37 he/she is supposed to have a degree, possibly a PHD, a pleasing and challenging position, and a secure family where children enjoy the enlightended parents. Qatar, with all its money and the relatively small population could have just been such a being and have a PHD buy now. All they have, however is elementary level. This is according to classifications from the UN, Human Rights Watch Orgs, and so on. So, did Qatar miss a chance?

Bit of a side-bar here - I certainly have many concerns about the condition and plight of the laborers here and would applaud any law that would help overcome some of the injustices. However, I don't think that Qatar should take the rap for exploitive recruiting firms in other countries that, in essence, sell these laborers a job for an extortive price. Qatar may try to close some of these loopholes but these illegal business practices are the fault of lax laws in the originating country.

MAndi

Qatari's have evolved dramatically from the tent and camels to Landcruisers and big villas in less than 30 years impressive..

Guess change does take place in less time nowadays..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

I just got 2 contradicting answers for my question on pay increases. Anyone else care to confirm or deny?

"didn't the Qatari government increase all Qatari's pays by 30% in the last few years"

No they did not!Te new unified HR law is yet be issued sometime next month.

Great debate guys. It's enlightening to have a serious discussion go one without people getting stupid. For the record, I'm with Gypsy on this one. You can't expect a country to suddenly change their culture overnight just because your country has done it already. Perhaps you can expect them to change a bit quicker than you did, but they still need time.

MissX, they increased everyone elses by 25%. I don't see an issue with this though, WE are NOT citizens.

Correct me if I am wrong, because I do not know this for sure, but didn't the Qatari government increase all Qatari's pays by 30% in the last few years and everyone else's by a lower percentage? If that is true, then that's a direct and purposeful attempt at increasing the poverty margin between the two.

Like I said feel free to discredit that because I am not sure if it's true. On the other hand if it is true, it would be nice if someone could confirm it. Ty.

That's true MD, things have shrunk, that's why it's taking less time to abolish segergation and adopt Human Rights ethics here then it did in the US, or other countries. That's why they didn't need a war here to abolish slavery.

UK, flesh and blood.

Age of Information, gypsy. Innovation periods shrunk dramatically. Another process you don't admit, don't you?

MD are you a man of Faith

or

A man of Science?

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Values aren't created overnight MD. Do you think you can teach an entire city to go from not being able to read to reading overnight? What about an entire country? an entire region? Science even takes time to become widely adopted, do you think everyone had a car or a telephone the moment they were invented? How can you expect values and ideas to change overnight?

bleu, your honesty is beautiful. But do you think the government of Qatar is as honest as you are?

What's the problem here? I'm for slavery, it's good for business. Unfortunately it was abolished years ago.

:P

Science is not morals and values MD. It's much harder to teach someone to change their views then it is to use a typewriter, and even then good luck teaching my 90 year old grandfather to use a computer.

Especially when the person you're trying to teach thinks that you've got your information wrong.

I don’t know why it’s assumed that the government body is not concerned about the labor condition. Municipality council member Shaika Aljufairi have raised her concern in several occasions . There have been studies conducted by QU. This issue just surface few years back, in 2000 to be exact. A decade ago, there were very few contracting companies with limited number of laborers. The ministry of labor had easier job in supervising that. Now the number have tripled, the concern department still works in the same efficiency & standard it did 10 years ago. Now the problem there are enormous violations (like for instance the abandoned labors at airport), concern department has very little clue how to deal with such situation and off course we all know if this is taken to court how long it will take to be settled between MOL & violated company.

I bet you know nothing about the instruction set that is implemented in each Intel processor. Obviously you are just using it.

Do they know what counting is? Do they know what the 1 means, or the zero? Come on, they never ever hear anything about the number theory of Gauss or others. And you know that very well. Nobody re-invents the wheel. But every child uses it, as if it has always been there with its properties.

Do they have to make the same mistakes over and over again? Then the human race is not evolving, according to you. What a miracle that they sent men to the moon. I have my doubts that any of the astronauts had to go through everything from Kepler to Feynman again.

You can't teach them to add or subtract before you teach them to count MD.

Let's just put it this way guys, the US abolished slavery in 1865, yet segregation wasn't outlawed until 1956 and there is STILL racism in the US.

Qatar outlawed slavery in 1952...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

Your argument is stupid, gypsy. You teach children how to add or subtract. You do not teach them anything about the theory of numbers. You make them use it!

000, possibly not. There aren't any experts here, at least not for physics.

hm.. now mods will have to open another special thread for abcd and physics.. !!

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ok any one agree with then than HH the Emir looks like Oliver Hardy?

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Depends, do they know how to read already? You can't go from teaching a kid their ABC's to nuclear physics can you? Especially if you aren't 100% sure on the physics yourself.

Do you really think that students should go through all the experiments of Archimedes again just to understand buoyance? Or wouldn't it be better to use it, instead?

I didn't realize the Renaissance lasted only 3 or 4 years MD, I was under the impression that it last for well over a 100.

It did change all of those things, but not overnight.

You are really trying to water down my arguments, gypsy. The ideas of the renaissance changed the political face in Europe. It's not just art, it's politics, human rights, laborers' rights, democratic governments, self-rule, ...

Has mine. I love the new galleries in Souq Waqif, and there's been some great plays recently.

As for the quality of life of the labourers...well all I can say is give it time. It took the United States almost a 100 years to stop segregation after slavery and there is still inequality amongst the races.

Oh yes, I forgot. It sure enhances "quality" of life, gypsy.

MD, they are becoming a center of Arts and Culture for the region.

Where did the enlightenment begin? Where did the renaissance start, fefee? In the poor countries? No, the richest countries in the 15th century could afford to maintain scientists and artists, and from there the ideas of democracy and freedom were spread. Now, Qatar being one of the richest countries in the world should have a similar obligation. What are they doing?

Those problems do exist and happen Jack Mohan, but if you check the laws of both Qatar and Dubai it is illegal to do that. Unfortunately there are those who, like in every country, are ignoring those laws. It's not the fault of the Emir that they aren't getting arrested, it's the fault of the Police Departments who are ignoring those ignoring the laws.

The end of the world is surely nigh... I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with a Canuck :0

A Case in general...

Yesterday over Radio Asianet news I heard the story of a couple of Immigrant labour in Dubai...

The guy was working as a carpenter and getting paid at Rs 300 per day (say QR 23).

He gets promised a salary of QR 2,700 in Dubai and to travel he had to pay approx Qr 6,500 to the agent. He does that and gets the job.

When he comes here he doesnt get paid at all and he is asked to sleep where ever he is working....plus he has to spend from his pocket for the food & travel (he earns this from doing some side-job).

He has the option to complain to the police and go back to his country....but how will he pay back the QR6,500 he took as loan....it might in fact have become QR7,000 and above as it is taken from "loan-sharks"....

He doesnt have the opportunity to join another job.....

So one cannot say the person is getting better paid than his home country thats why he is not leaving...

Such a problem is quite popular here in the gulf due to the sponsorship & Exit permit laws....

This is rare problem elsewhere......

yes gybsy , every one , I MEAN E V E R Y ONE OF US ARE BETTER OFF HERE than in our countries !!!!!!! so people pleeese !! think before you talk! there are inequalities in every part of this world!

action speaks louder than words

lol @ 'speacially designed thread' !!!

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Oops. I'll move my last post here then.

When I see women getting paid the same amount as men for the same job in the West I'll criticize Qatar, till then I'll worry about the inequalities in my own country.

The Emir is a great man, but he isn't God, he can't change hundreds of years of racial inequality in a decade. Frankly I'm surprised at the progress he's made to date. Labourers here are better off then those in Saudi and even Dubai.

Nice header, thank you Mod