I think my expectations were more than warranted with regards to my own personal situation.
It seems that the community in Birmingham is better then my current one in the north east. Allahu Alim. I had no expectations other than normal human relations with fellow muslims who believe the same as myself. Unfortunately, what I have found is that many of them in my area have extreme cultural problems when it comes to socializing. A problem that I have not experienced with the more educated muslims (non salafis) of the community.
Really the point of me mentioning this was to relate my own experience with brother Amjad. A person who is revered all over the UK and who only deems himself as a translator at most. I believe that sometimes we can elevate a persons status based on him lecturing at the conferences and what is due to him because of his good characteristics. And their is no doubt that Abu Iyaad has many good characteristics such as sincerity, honesty, loyalty to his family, and many more.
As for the lot in Birmingham then I can not base it on many experiences as I have never lived in the area. Although my husband was at one point very good friends with Abu Khadeeja and when he saw us was not as welcoming. Please bear in mind that my husband is an Indian British born and raised in London and is acclaimed (professionally and within the community) for his social skills and speaking abilities. Nor are we over critical people in general.
After meeting other people, with similar backgrounds like us, who have approached the salafis this has been their same take as well. Having said that, the salafi community is in its infancy and I believe with sisters like me shelling out advice where I think it is needed then perhaps we can all look at ourselves and change. It may be that what works for some people does not work for others. And we should take into consideration that their are different strokes for different folks. And take on board the experiences of people from different backgrounds and regions. What may be representative in Birmingham for some people is clearly not the case for many other people who have come into contact with the spubs community. I believe Taqi Hashmi amongst others has felt the same as we have.
And I believe many of the replies above contest to the "we are usually right mentality" and "if your not with us then your against us" stance as well. I believe advice with evidence is one thing and not being open minded to our own faults and attitude is another. As muslims we should be critical of ourselves first and analyse whether we have indeed made the mistake and be careful before we advise others on wrong information. Or worse cause them a hardship by explaining it in a way that pushes them away from Islam. (bearing in mind that I am not supporting the ikhwaanee mentality of sugar coating things). We need to be careful in our replies when dishing out advice and be understanding of the person by using our hikmah in the situation.
This unwise manner of advising can seem common amongst the salafis and is only further evidence of a lack of social skills. Something people like my husband who has been gifted with superb communication skills notices. And other people equally as talented have been pushed away from the dawah due to it. (Who have not gone to the green lane salafi/ikwanee as a result).
And that brings me back to Abu Iyaad. He himself will not say he is more than a translator. Yes I am critical of him travelling around the world yet unable to unite the salafis in his own community. In my humble opinion, I feel his priorities need to be sorted out in this regard. And I also feel that by him travelling around the world giving lectures he is elevating his status in which he is not ready to take on the responsibility nor is he yet qualified. As a da'ee, we must strive to practice what we preach and be leaders in our community if we take on this role. And their is no doubt that many of you believe Abu Iyaad to be more than a mere translator of Arabic books due these actions. And this is something that needs to be clarified to exactly what are his responsibilities and status/skills thought to be within scholarly circles. And if he has proved himself with knowledge and practice in this regard.
And this furthers the conversation from Brit expats observation of not acting on what we advise. Is not one of the very first steps of giving Dawah knowledge. And what is knowledge in Islam? Knowledge is acquired by a person when they act upon that knowledge. Therefore a person who is not acting upon knowledge has not fufilled the requirement of knowledge nor are they fit to give dawah.
Having said that if it is an everyday person who says something right then yes I agree that one should follow it (if we know it to be right) and not be prideful due to the faults of the advisor. Nor should we judge them or be overly critical but, rather, we should be soft and straightforward with hikmah to guide them to what is right. May Allah guide us all to the right path and keep our feet firm upon it InshAllah ameen.
I believe brothers that rather then being quick to defend Salafi publication and the personalities within the organization. We should have a look at ourselves and see if their is any truth in what the sister has said. And at the very least take my experience for face value. And work from there.
And InshAllah I pray that in the future I will not have the same experience with salafis. And Allah will guide me to grow in my eeman and knowledge with righteous muslims who fear Allah and the last day and enjoin each other upon good. InshAllah alahumma ameen.
abu imaan said Re: ...
salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
sorry i jumped on this thread a little late - Princess Habibah, forgive me in advance for it is not my intention to say this except in the kindest manner, but may I just respectfully suggest (in regards to your comment of not having learnt anything since you have been here) first that - may Allah reward you for your zeal to increase in knowledge and may He increase you in beneficial knowledge -
THANK YOU BROTHER. JAZAKALLAH KHAIRUN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WRITE ON THIS THREAD. MAY IT BE OF BENEFIT TO US BOTH. INSHALLAH AMEEN.
My sincere advice, and indeed the religion is naseehah, is that if you have not done so already, that you should still take knowledge from the sources available -
• you can become fluent in Arabic (fusha) and grammar so that you can take from the sources and not have to rely on the translation -
• you can strive to obtain ijaaza in recitation and memorize
ive been here a year and hamdulillah have come a far way - I am not saying this for show but rather for encouragement - I learned tajweed, nearly memorized 5 juz (along with tafseer, mostly ibn katheer)- been learning Arabic and have taken courses on usool (hadeeth, fiqh, tafseer) with dr Bilaal at Qatar guest center - I mean usool is usool (usool ul fiqh doesn’t change much between the mazhahib for example)
the point is I am trying to take knowledge from where it is available - I didn’t shy away from knowledge simply because troid has some issues with dr Bilaal (incidentally, issues I have not observed but that is for a different time). It is not feasible for me with a wife and 2 kids to go to yemen, or madinah unv - so I strive to take as much from the authentic sources as possible
THANK YOU BROTHER. YES I HAVE BEEN THINKING OF THE SAME RECENTLY DUE TO THE LACK OF BROTHERHOOD WITHIN THE SPUBS COMMUNITY AND LACK OF FACILITATIN ISLAMIC LEARNING. THANK YOU FOR YOUR OPINION OF DR. BILAAL. I HAVE SEEN SOME AND I ADMIT THAT I STILL FEEL FEARFUL BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I HAVE TO WEIGH UP THE PROS AND CONS. WITHOUT GAINING KNOWLEDGE MY EEMAN WILL WEAKEN, MY PRAYERS WILL SUFFER, AND DESPITE THE CRITICISMS TOWARD DR. BILAAL IT MAY BE THE ONLY OPTION I HAVE TO TAKE. MAY ALLAH GUIDE US BOTH TO KNOWLEDGE IN THE BEST WAY INSHALLAH AND PROTECT US FROM DEVIATIONS.
I am sure you are well aware that the criticism that has been directed towards the salafis (some exaggerated and unjustified) include
the occupation only with knowledge of refutation (one might label and refute everyone, or be harsh with people more knowledgeable then him for a mistake he made, while not even understanding a simple idaafah construction or having memorized even a single juz) -
YES THIS IS VERY TRUE. MAY ALLAH MAKE US EASY AND SOFT PEOPLE.
this lack of knowledge spills over in areas of adaab (as you mentioned) so that a Muslim is harsh with his brother when he disagrees with him over an issue in fiqh, failing to realize the Sahabah did not all agree on every fiqh issue but maintained a unified front because its benefit outweighed its harm
YES I AGREE, HOWEVER ALTHOUGH I FEEL THAT LACK OF KNOWLEDGE HAS SPILLED OVER INTO THE ADAAB OF MANY SALAFIS IT ALSO EFFECTS OUR IDEA OF UNITY. I VERY MUCH AGREE THAT FIQH ISSUES CAN BE DIFFERENT AND PERHAPS THIS IS TO A SMALL DEGREE AN ISSUE WITH SPUBS. HOWEVER, IN MY OBSERVATION ANYTHING THEY HAVE REFUTED NEEDS TO BE REFUTED FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH AND FUTURE UNITY AMONGST THE MUSLIMS. I BELIEVE UNITY SHOULD BE ON WHAT IS RIGHT AND NOT ON WHAT IS CLEARLY WRONG. (IT SHOULD BE CLEARLY WRONG OR NOT WITHIN ISLAM). FAR TO OFTEN WE TEND TO OVERLOOK THE CLEAR WRONGS OF OTHERS DUE TO OUR OWN IGNORANCE. AND WHEN A PERSON COMES TO GUIDE US WE BECOME LAZY AND DO NOT CLARIFY IF WHAT THEY HAVE SAID IS TRUTHFUL. AND THIS IS SOMETHI I LOVE ABOUT ABU IYAAD AND THE OTHER PLAYERS AT SPUBS. MAY ALLAH INCREASE US ALL UPON GOOD AND SINCERITY AND MAKE IT EASY FOR US. INSHALLAH ALAHUMMA AMEEN.
Ibn Katheer recorded in his tafseer that the Prophet (p) said to some from amongst bani-israel during a dispute "Whatever knowledge you have been given, if Allah saves you from the Fire thereby, then it is great and good, but in comparison to the knowledge of Allah, it is very little.''
May Allah increase you and your husband in beneficial knowledge.
AGAIN THANK YOU BROTHER AND I WILL TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE SAID ON BOARD.
As well as the comments by the rest of the people on this thread. It is a relief to know that if I had lived in birmingham then things would have been different. Certainly this gives some sukoon to my heart. Thank you.
A merry can
I think my expectations were more than warranted with regards to my own personal situation.
It seems that the community in Birmingham is better then my current one in the north east. Allahu Alim. I had no expectations other than normal human relations with fellow muslims who believe the same as myself. Unfortunately, what I have found is that many of them in my area have extreme cultural problems when it comes to socializing. A problem that I have not experienced with the more educated muslims (non salafis) of the community.
Really the point of me mentioning this was to relate my own experience with brother Amjad. A person who is revered all over the UK and who only deems himself as a translator at most. I believe that sometimes we can elevate a persons status based on him lecturing at the conferences and what is due to him because of his good characteristics. And their is no doubt that Abu Iyaad has many good characteristics such as sincerity, honesty, loyalty to his family, and many more.
As for the lot in Birmingham then I can not base it on many experiences as I have never lived in the area. Although my husband was at one point very good friends with Abu Khadeeja and when he saw us was not as welcoming. Please bear in mind that my husband is an Indian British born and raised in London and is acclaimed (professionally and within the community) for his social skills and speaking abilities. Nor are we over critical people in general.
After meeting other people, with similar backgrounds like us, who have approached the salafis this has been their same take as well. Having said that, the salafi community is in its infancy and I believe with sisters like me shelling out advice where I think it is needed then perhaps we can all look at ourselves and change. It may be that what works for some people does not work for others. And we should take into consideration that their are different strokes for different folks. And take on board the experiences of people from different backgrounds and regions. What may be representative in Birmingham for some people is clearly not the case for many other people who have come into contact with the spubs community. I believe Taqi Hashmi amongst others has felt the same as we have.
And I believe many of the replies above contest to the "we are usually right mentality" and "if your not with us then your against us" stance as well. I believe advice with evidence is one thing and not being open minded to our own faults and attitude is another. As muslims we should be critical of ourselves first and analyse whether we have indeed made the mistake and be careful before we advise others on wrong information. Or worse cause them a hardship by explaining it in a way that pushes them away from Islam. (bearing in mind that I am not supporting the ikhwaanee mentality of sugar coating things). We need to be careful in our replies when dishing out advice and be understanding of the person by using our hikmah in the situation.
This unwise manner of advising can seem common amongst the salafis and is only further evidence of a lack of social skills. Something people like my husband who has been gifted with superb communication skills notices. And other people equally as talented have been pushed away from the dawah due to it. (Who have not gone to the green lane salafi/ikwanee as a result).
And that brings me back to Abu Iyaad. He himself will not say he is more than a translator. Yes I am critical of him travelling around the world yet unable to unite the salafis in his own community. In my humble opinion, I feel his priorities need to be sorted out in this regard. And I also feel that by him travelling around the world giving lectures he is elevating his status in which he is not ready to take on the responsibility nor is he yet qualified. As a da'ee, we must strive to practice what we preach and be leaders in our community if we take on this role. And their is no doubt that many of you believe Abu Iyaad to be more than a mere translator of Arabic books due these actions. And this is something that needs to be clarified to exactly what are his responsibilities and status/skills thought to be within scholarly circles. And if he has proved himself with knowledge and practice in this regard.
And this furthers the conversation from Brit expats observation of not acting on what we advise. Is not one of the very first steps of giving Dawah knowledge. And what is knowledge in Islam? Knowledge is acquired by a person when they act upon that knowledge. Therefore a person who is not acting upon knowledge has not fufilled the requirement of knowledge nor are they fit to give dawah.
Having said that if it is an everyday person who says something right then yes I agree that one should follow it (if we know it to be right) and not be prideful due to the faults of the advisor. Nor should we judge them or be overly critical but, rather, we should be soft and straightforward with hikmah to guide them to what is right. May Allah guide us all to the right path and keep our feet firm upon it InshAllah ameen.
I believe brothers that rather then being quick to defend Salafi publication and the personalities within the organization. We should have a look at ourselves and see if their is any truth in what the sister has said. And at the very least take my experience for face value. And work from there.
And InshAllah I pray that in the future I will not have the same experience with salafis. And Allah will guide me to grow in my eeman and knowledge with righteous muslims who fear Allah and the last day and enjoin each other upon good. InshAllah alahumma ameen.
abu imaan said Re: ...
salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
sorry i jumped on this thread a little late - Princess Habibah, forgive me in advance for it is not my intention to say this except in the kindest manner, but may I just respectfully suggest (in regards to your comment of not having learnt anything since you have been here) first that - may Allah reward you for your zeal to increase in knowledge and may He increase you in beneficial knowledge -
THANK YOU BROTHER. JAZAKALLAH KHAIRUN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WRITE ON THIS THREAD. MAY IT BE OF BENEFIT TO US BOTH. INSHALLAH AMEEN.
My sincere advice, and indeed the religion is naseehah, is that if you have not done so already, that you should still take knowledge from the sources available -
• you can become fluent in Arabic (fusha) and grammar so that you can take from the sources and not have to rely on the translation -
• you can strive to obtain ijaaza in recitation and memorize
ive been here a year and hamdulillah have come a far way - I am not saying this for show but rather for encouragement - I learned tajweed, nearly memorized 5 juz (along with tafseer, mostly ibn katheer)- been learning Arabic and have taken courses on usool (hadeeth, fiqh, tafseer) with dr Bilaal at Qatar guest center - I mean usool is usool (usool ul fiqh doesn’t change much between the mazhahib for example)
the point is I am trying to take knowledge from where it is available - I didn’t shy away from knowledge simply because troid has some issues with dr Bilaal (incidentally, issues I have not observed but that is for a different time). It is not feasible for me with a wife and 2 kids to go to yemen, or madinah unv - so I strive to take as much from the authentic sources as possible
THANK YOU BROTHER. YES I HAVE BEEN THINKING OF THE SAME RECENTLY DUE TO THE LACK OF BROTHERHOOD WITHIN THE SPUBS COMMUNITY AND LACK OF FACILITATIN ISLAMIC LEARNING. THANK YOU FOR YOUR OPINION OF DR. BILAAL. I HAVE SEEN SOME AND I ADMIT THAT I STILL FEEL FEARFUL BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I HAVE TO WEIGH UP THE PROS AND CONS. WITHOUT GAINING KNOWLEDGE MY EEMAN WILL WEAKEN, MY PRAYERS WILL SUFFER, AND DESPITE THE CRITICISMS TOWARD DR. BILAAL IT MAY BE THE ONLY OPTION I HAVE TO TAKE. MAY ALLAH GUIDE US BOTH TO KNOWLEDGE IN THE BEST WAY INSHALLAH AND PROTECT US FROM DEVIATIONS.
I am sure you are well aware that the criticism that has been directed towards the salafis (some exaggerated and unjustified) include
the occupation only with knowledge of refutation (one might label and refute everyone, or be harsh with people more knowledgeable then him for a mistake he made, while not even understanding a simple idaafah construction or having memorized even a single juz) -
YES THIS IS VERY TRUE. MAY ALLAH MAKE US EASY AND SOFT PEOPLE.
this lack of knowledge spills over in areas of adaab (as you mentioned) so that a Muslim is harsh with his brother when he disagrees with him over an issue in fiqh, failing to realize the Sahabah did not all agree on every fiqh issue but maintained a unified front because its benefit outweighed its harm
YES I AGREE, HOWEVER ALTHOUGH I FEEL THAT LACK OF KNOWLEDGE HAS SPILLED OVER INTO THE ADAAB OF MANY SALAFIS IT ALSO EFFECTS OUR IDEA OF UNITY. I VERY MUCH AGREE THAT FIQH ISSUES CAN BE DIFFERENT AND PERHAPS THIS IS TO A SMALL DEGREE AN ISSUE WITH SPUBS. HOWEVER, IN MY OBSERVATION ANYTHING THEY HAVE REFUTED NEEDS TO BE REFUTED FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH AND FUTURE UNITY AMONGST THE MUSLIMS. I BELIEVE UNITY SHOULD BE ON WHAT IS RIGHT AND NOT ON WHAT IS CLEARLY WRONG. (IT SHOULD BE CLEARLY WRONG OR NOT WITHIN ISLAM). FAR TO OFTEN WE TEND TO OVERLOOK THE CLEAR WRONGS OF OTHERS DUE TO OUR OWN IGNORANCE. AND WHEN A PERSON COMES TO GUIDE US WE BECOME LAZY AND DO NOT CLARIFY IF WHAT THEY HAVE SAID IS TRUTHFUL. AND THIS IS SOMETHI I LOVE ABOUT ABU IYAAD AND THE OTHER PLAYERS AT SPUBS. MAY ALLAH INCREASE US ALL UPON GOOD AND SINCERITY AND MAKE IT EASY FOR US. INSHALLAH ALAHUMMA AMEEN.
Ibn Katheer recorded in his tafseer that the Prophet (p) said to some from amongst bani-israel during a dispute "Whatever knowledge you have been given, if Allah saves you from the Fire thereby, then it is great and good, but in comparison to the knowledge of Allah, it is very little.''
May Allah increase you and your husband in beneficial knowledge.
AGAIN THANK YOU BROTHER AND I WILL TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE SAID ON BOARD.
As well as the comments by the rest of the people on this thread. It is a relief to know that if I had lived in birmingham then things would have been different. Certainly this gives some sukoon to my heart. Thank you.
Asalaamu Alaikum rahmantullah wa barakatahu
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi